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Did D'Antoni get a fair shake? Let's look at the starters for Knicks/Lakers teams

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by bmd, May 27, 2016.

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bmd Member

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Here are the 5 players with the most starts when D'Antoni coached the Knicks and Lakers.

Knicks:

2009 (32-50):

Chris Duhon
David Lee
Wilson Chandler
Al Harrington
Quentin Richardson

2010 (29-53):

David Lee
Danilo Gallinari
Wilson Chandler
Chris Duhon
Jared Jeffries

2011 (42-40):

Landry Fields
Amar'e Stoudemire
Raymond Felton
Danilo Gallinari
Wilson Chandler

(Carmelo was traded during the season and only played 27 games)

2012 (18-24):

Tyson Chandler
Landry Fields
Carmelo Anthony
Amar'e Stoudemire
Iman Shumpert

Gets fired. Team goes 18-6 under Mike Woodson. They didn't just remember how to play basketball. They forced him out. Word is that Carmelo didn't like D'Antoni and didn't try when he was the coach. Averaged 20 pts on 40% fg% that season under D'Antoni, averaged 29 pts on 50% fg% after.

Lakers:

2013 (40-32):

Kobe Bryant
Dwight Howard
Metta World Peace
Steve Nash
Pau Gasol

He was hired after Mike Brown was fired. Took over after 10 games had already been played. Did not get to install a system in training camp. Did not get to work on it during preseason. Team was 1-12 including preseason and the first 5 games of the regular season, so they had serious problems before D'Antoni even got there. There was no way any coach could have cleaned that up.

2014 (27-55):

Jodie Meeks
Wesley Johnson
Pau Gasol
Kendall Marshall
Jordan Hill

So was D'Antoni ever really given a fair shot to succeed in these instances? 3 seasons with absolutely horrible Knicks rosters. The one decent Knicks roster he gets Carmelo forces him out. The Lakers roster was dysfunctional before D'Antoni ever got there, and you are setting up a coach for failure when he has to take over 10 games into the season without a proper training camp. And the last season he was with the Lakers the roster was a dumpster fire.

After his years in Phoenix, he was never provided with a roster worth a crap.

I've thought about it a bit, and I'm actually interested to see what he and his staff can do coming in as fresh faces from the start and can actually coach a roster with some talent.

#1 bmd, May 27, 2016

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curbur Member

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That's a fair point.. do you think our roster next year will be yet another 'unfair shake' for his system? Probably :/.

#2 curbur, May 27, 2016
bmd Member

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curbur said: ↑

That's a fair point.. do you think our roster next year will be yet another 'unfair shake' for his system? Probably :/.
Click to expand...

No. The Rockets' roster will be much better than those teams.

#3 bmd, May 27, 2016
Ziggy QUEEN ANON

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He's coached almost a THOUSAND basketball games and only has about 30 more wins than losses. Close to a THOUSAND. That's a fair shake. A THOUSAND.

#4 Ziggy, May 27, 2016
bmd Member

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Ziggy said: ↑

He's coached almost a THOUSAND basketball games and only has about 30 more wins than losses. Close to a THOUSAND. That's a fair shake. A THOUSAND.
Click to expand...

That's a simple-minded argument.

Phil Jackson could coach 1,000 games with the current Lakers roster and his overall record would be terrible.

#5 bmd, May 27, 2016
steddinotayto Contributing Member

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Isn't a measure of how great a coach is or isn't based on what he can do with what he's been given?

Most coaches can be said to not have been given a "fair shake".

#6 steddinotayto, May 27, 2016
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This is enough to sway me. I'll give him a chance and keep an open mind. I think now it's up to DM to get the roster right.

I'm still on the fence as to whether this is going to be the first season since 1993 that I stop watching the Rockets, as last year was the first time I couldn't be proud about anything with this team...but this helps pull me back over. Let's see what else happens in the off-season.

#7 RedDragon01, May 27, 2016

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bmd Member

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steddinotayto said: ↑

Isn't a measure of how great a coach is or isn't based on what he can do with what he's been given?

Most coaches can be said to not have been given a "fair shake".
Click to expand...

It's not like he was given a roster that was rough around the edges and had some talent that he had to pull out of players and maximize their potential.

He was given some of the worst rosters in the league.

Big difference.

#8 bmd, May 27, 2016

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Amel Contributing Member

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I think its a fair point.

I wrote a couple of times that I am not a fan of DAntoni hire because there were many others that made more sense. At the end of the day, I am willing to give him some time.

We'll see I guess.

#9 Amel, May 27, 2016
steddinotayto Contributing Member

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bmd said: ↑

It's not like he was given a roster that was rough around the edges and had some talent that he had to pull out of players and maximize their potential.

He was given some of the worst rosters in the league.

Big difference.
Click to expand...

So now he's been given some of the worst rosters in he league? That's overselling it a bit considering we've seen worst rosters the past few years in Philadelphia.

He was given mediocre players and his team produced mediocre records. When he had a roster of MVPs and All-Stars, his team has gone to conference finals.

#10 steddinotayto, May 27, 2016
bmd Member

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steddinotayto said: ↑

So now he's been given some of the worst rosters in he league? That's overselling it a bit considering we've seen worst rosters the past few years in Philadelphia.

He was given mediocre players and his team produced mediocre records. When he had a roster of MVPs and All-Stars, his team has gone to conference finals.
Click to expand...

No, they were terrible rosters. I just listed the starters. The benches were even worse. I listed the 5 best players on the team.

#11 bmd, May 27, 2016
Snow Villiers Member

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James Harden is probably the best player D'Antoni will coach.

#12 Snow Villiers, May 27, 2016
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Amel said: ↑

I think its a fair point.

I wrote a couple of times that I am not a fan of DAntoni hire because there were many others that made more sense. At the end of the day, I am willing to give him some time.

We'll see I guess.
Click to expand...

Other than JVG who Les already hired and fired I didn't see any?

I mean think about it, think about what Les likes. Get into his mind for a moment.

He wants his team to be competitive. He has Daryl in his ear about the great FAs he's going to get and how the team can get back to the WCF level again.

Is Les going to hire a complete unknown or a known? A guy who was once considered one of the great coaches or some assistant?

People wanted Silas and other assistant coaches but they come with risks too. That risk being that they are new to the job. At least MDA isn't that. He's going to come in there with a plan.

#13 JayGoogle, May 27, 2016

steddinotayto Contributing Member

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bmd said: ↑

No, they were terrible rosters. I just listed the starters. The benches were even worse. I listed the 5 best players on the team.
Click to expand...

We'll agree to disagree on the talent of their rosters because your "worst rosters in the league" opinion differs from my "see the Sixers the past few seasons for worst" opinion.

It doesn't change the fact that D'Antoni's team have pretty much done what all other teams do in NBA history and that's performing to their talent level. Mediocre players? Mediocre results. Elite players? Elite performance.

What I'm more interested in are examples of D'Antoni getting more out of his given roster than what "fairness" he's not been given.

#14 steddinotayto, May 27, 2016

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bmd Member

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steddinotayto said: ↑

We'll agree to disagree on the talent of their rosters because your "worst rosters in the league" opinion differs from my "see the Sixers the past few seasons for worst" opinion.

It doesn't change the fact that D'Antoni's team have pretty much done what all other teams do in NBA history and that's performing to their talent level. Mediocre players? Mediocre results. Elite players? Elite performance.

What I'm more interested in are examples of D'Antoni getting more out of his given roster than what "fairness" he's not been given.
Click to expand...

How do you determine how much a coach is getting out of his roster? How is that measurable?

And I never said he had the absolute worst roster in the league. I said some of the worst, and I don't know how you can dispute that.

#15 bmd, May 27, 2016
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I am with the OP. Let's give the guy a chance. Offense should be much better. Defense? It was crappy anyway, so let's hope they hire a good defensive assistance coach to help him out.

#16 Hakeemtheking, May 27, 2016
justtxyank Contributing Member

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I've been making this same argument.

I don't know what to think of D'Antoni. I actually think he's a big incomplete honestly.

His stints in NY and LA were disasters but nobody has done any better really with those teams because of the rosters. The LA team was marred by injury and then the roster went to hell.

#17 justtxyank, May 27, 2016
phantoman Contributing Member

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Wait this doesnt make sense - I thought Carmelo played on Team USA and like D'antoni.....

Everyone that is saying that James might have liked D'Antoni because he played with him in Team USA, be careful..... IF the premise is that Harden is the next Melo, this wont end well

#18 phantoman, May 27, 2016

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I'm with OP. Just don't see this hire as a disaster. Uninspiring? Underwhelming? Sure. Not a disaster like many are making it out to be, though.

#19 J Sizzle, May 27, 2016
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So he needs elite talent(ie Steve Nash & co.) to be great?

Breaking news, he's not taking over his Phoenix Suns or present-day Golden State Warriors.

1998-99 Denever Nuggets(14-36)

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2003-04 Phoenix Suns(21-40)

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2004-05 Phoenix Suns(62-20)

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2005-06 Phoenix Suns(54-28)

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2006-07 Phoenix Suns(61-21)

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2007-08 Phoenix Suns(55-27)

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2008-09 New York Knicks(32-50)

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2009-10 New York Knicks(29-53)

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2010-11 New York Knicks(42-40)

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2011-12 New York Knicks(18-24/36-30 overall)

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2012-13 LA Lakers(40-32/45-37 overall)

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2013-14 LA Lakers(27-55)

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#20 J.R., May 27, 2016

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