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Change of Fortune: NBA stars who would've won more or less titles on different teams

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by plutoblue11, Jun 15, 2016.

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  1. Jturbofuel

    Jturbofuel Member

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    The offer was for either Sampson or the #1 pick which became Hakeem Portland would have given us Drexler and the #3 pick. Rockets could have had Drexler, Jordan, and Hakeem.
     
    #21 Jturbofuel, Jun 16, 2016
  2. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    ZERO, if we go by the absolute standard of having "no" all-stars on the team from the beginning until the end. No NBA team has ever had one lone superstar win a championship without having other players who had never produced one-all star appearance It's an unrealistic and imaginary standard

    The only two teams I could point to where there was one "definite" superstar with much lesser players:

    Rick Barry (Golden State Warriors), 1973-74 - Jaamal Wilkes was rookie. Butch Beard, at the time, was slightly above average point guard whose better days were in Atlanta and Cleveland

    Hakeem Olajuwon (Houston Rockets), 1993-94     Sam Cassell was a rookie. Otis Thorpe was a really good power forward, though passing his prime. Kenny Smith and Vernon Maxwell were fine guards who never quite all-stars.


    The teams who I could point to and say had no "superstars" at all, but were able to win a title:

    1978-79 Seattle Supersonics: Though, they did have *six* players who were all-stars at some point in their careers -- Gus Williams; Dennis Johnson; Jack Sikma; Lonnie Johnson, Freddie Brown, and John Johnson. With four of those players being in their primes.

    2003-04 Detroit Pistons: ...But they had four bonafide all-star caliber players in Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, Rip Hamilton,and Chauncey Billups.

    For NBA championships, the general standard is One*reigning*or previous MVP with at least one to two other all-stars, and in some cases another former MVP (or MVP candidate). If that's not met, your team needs four to five guys who are bonafide all-stars who can play both ends of the floor, pretty well.
     
    #22 plutoblue11, Jun 16, 2016
  3. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    It doesn't work like that, because some of the worst teams in the West developed into some really good teams from the late 90s/early 2000s until late 2000s.

    If LeBron ends up on a team, like the Clippers, Hornets, Nuggets, or Warriors...or even the Rockets or T-Wolves. He would've had the chance to end up some teams that were already kind of competitive or good.


    I do not care what kind of feelings people have for this man, he is a livin' and playin' legend. His numbers competely contradict your point, when was he carried in the playoffs. I remember dominating all of the playoff performances in Cleveland for the most part. *He* often carried the Heat through the season and playoffs, he pretty much lead the way in the two title victories.
     
    #23 plutoblue11, Jun 16, 2016
  4. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    [Debbie Downer]I think the whole proposition here is flawed. Stars don't win titles, teams do. Everybody's fortunes would have changed if they were on different teams. Jordan could have been ringless if he was drafted some other place. Tracy McGrady could have been a champion if he played with the right cast. Sure, they make their contributions -- and superstars make outsized contributions -- but nobody wins or loses all by himself. [/Debbie Downer]
     
    #24 JuanValdez, Jun 17, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  5. cheshire

    cheshire Contributing Member

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    One of the things that I feel is underrated about the 94 and 95 title runs is the fact that Hakeem faced off his greatest rivals for the best center in the league and showed who's boss.

    If it wasn't for the tomfoolery that derailed the 86 team on, Dream may have delivered the silverware earlier. Hakeem was posting eye-popping numbers in the post-season year after year that belong in video games.
     
    #25 cheshire, Jun 17, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2016
  6. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

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    Very weird question as the answer is incredibly simple. Drop a star on any lottery team, mid 2k Rockets/Lakers, etc and combine it with a bad front office: Obviously no Ring, unless you somehow think Jordan would've won jack if he played for a terrible team with a bad supporting cast.

    Now drop guys like Stockton, Melone, Barkley, McGrady, Durant etc on the past championship teams and it's nearly a given that they would've won at least one Ring.

    Dont even know why this is being debated.
     
    #26 Yung-T, Jun 18, 2016
  7. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    This is a good post, the reality is just like at work the biggest factor to your success will always be luck. If Zuckerberg had been born in a 3rd world country no matter how bright he is he wouldn't have the time or option to drop college and create facebook.

    While most of us tend to dietify these players, at the end of the day there are still a lot of good players so you could exchange their positions and we'd look at them differently. For example what if LA got Paul Pierce instead how many rings would Pierce and Shaq have by now? Or what if Kobe ended up as a King would we even think he is one of the best? If Lebron got drafted by Memphis Grizzlies without his Cleveland boys to hype him up and the Cavs owner enabling his behavior maybe Lebron wouldn't have become this arrogant etc.

    That's why I think posts like these are ultimately pointless because who we are is the culmination of events that happened in our lives. If you start changing it due to "what if" scenarios, these players would have changed dramatically.
     
    #27 roslolian, Jun 18, 2016
  8. Fefo

    Fefo Member

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    Tim Duncan won it as the lone Superstar in 2003. At that point manu was a rookie averaging 8 ppg, parker was still developing, robinson was waaaay past his prime in his last year. In the finals he averaged 24pts, 17 rpg, 5.2 apg and 5.2 bpg, and barely missed a quad double by 2 blocks. He had great role players in general around him, but he was the real force there.
     
    #28 Fefo, Jun 18, 2016
  9. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    Tony Parker was still a very above average point guard, Ginobili was still getting better, then they also had Bruce Bowen (arguably the best wing defender at the time) and Stephen Jackson. Even David Robinson (previous MVP)as still a pretty good player, defensively.

    There's five players in there who either became all-stars or were near all-star level. In Robinson's case, even though, he was at the end of his career, he was still a contributor.
     
    #29 plutoblue11, Jun 18, 2016
  10. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    This is kind of my point, when people use the "rings" as an argument in any sport, obvious you aren't going to win as much, "Not playing for Yankees...Patriots...Lakers or whoever is a powerhouse at the time."
     
    #30 plutoblue11, Jun 18, 2016
  11. SF3isBack!!

    SF3isBack!! Member

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    Houston for some reason cant get both stars and role players at the same time. It gets role players doesn't have stars and it gets the stars and then doesn't have the role players.
     
    #31 SF3isBack!!, Jun 18, 2016
  12. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    You know I've always found that funny. It really is sad, how the Rockets have been going through that cycle for over 40 years.
     
    #32 plutoblue11, Jun 18, 2016
  13. PhiSlammaJamma

    PhiSlammaJamma Member

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    With all the time Harden has saved on defense and Zuckerberg on College, I would expect he and Zuckerberg are masterminding world takeover.
     
    #33 PhiSlammaJamma, Jun 18, 2016
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