the defining moments & what they are best known for for the likes of Jefferson Davis and Robert E Lee are their armed insurrection in support of a pro-slavery government, so why in this day and age should we have schools & streets named after them is mind boggling.
Did they strap on a vest made of dynamite and blow themselves up to kill their enemies. . .. . that is pretty brave too shall we celebrate those folx as well? Rocket River
I think it's pretty interesting to see some people have settled on fighting for the Confederacy as the defining criterion and punting on things like actual slave ownership. As far as the black folks who got a stick in the eye by having to walk on a street called Dowling, should they really feel better on Jefferson St? Now, sure, Jefferson is known for much more than just his slave ownership and racist attitudes. But, Dowling isn't known much at all, period. More people -- including more people living in proximity of Dowling St -- likely know about Jefferson's racism than know that Dowling St is named for a Confederate soldier, much less who he was and what he did. In that regard, it seems more about some kind of meta-accounting where Jefferson is getting some large credits for his Founding Father business to cover up some large sins in enslaving others, while Dowling's books have much, much smaller balances, and we can essentially stick him in a class-action against the Confederacy in general. We're essentially looking the other way for Jefferson because we want to avoid the cognitive dissonance of condemning a Founding Father. For some Southerners, they have a similar problem when they turn their back on their heritage, but for plenty of people it's easy enough to drop Dowling into the dustbin of history and not even bother with the complexities of his history and the choices he made. I don't think it's so much a revision or a re-revision of history, but a plain non-consideration of history. The renaming isn't about dealing with our past so much as disowning it and wishing it away.
Where is his opposite? Where are the streets that celebrate the African Americans that fought in that war? Why does he deserve a street and many others not? Is there a Santa Anna street in Houston? IMO it is the nasty subtle of passive submission to racism. People living on a street or going to a school names for someone that would rather they be dead or enslaved than breath free air. People putting on uniforms with those names on them . . . singing high school songs. . . . going into games to defend that name. Names matter. Where is the Benedict Arnold School? Once again minorities are asked to accept and forget things that the majority never would. Rocket River
I think it's a fair point, and one I agree with. I want names like Lee and Davis changed. Our kids shouldn't have to go to schools with names like that. I question whether and why it applies to Dowling. Dowling was an Irish immigrant who came to New Orleans and then Houston, mainly as an entrepreneur who operated saloons. He was a member of an Irish militia that mustered for the Confederacy. Did he support slavery? Would he rather die than see blacks free? Did he see blacks as racially inferior? I don't know. I've seen no accusation like that of him. So I'm wondering if merely fighting for the Confederacy is enough to make him worth denouncing -- especially when others who have done far worse things are still lauded.
How many people knew who Dowling St. was named for? Seems to me the people railing against this have done more to keep Lt Dowling's memory alive than anybody else has in the last 50 years.
The "it doesn't matter cause it was all the pro-slavery glorification was done by a bunch of old dead racists who are now old and dead" defense would be a lot more viable if we truly were in some post-racial state. You're right, a lot of these things don't matter. If you name your land development Norman Forest, are you really commemorating pillaging raids along the Irish coastline in the year 795? probably not. Because there's no real connection there. In this instance, however, you can trace a direct spiritual, political and in many cases genetic line from John C Calhoun to the CSA and its e Lost Cause mythmakers to anti-Reconstruction and its 100 year long Jim Crow era, to the modern day Southern Strategy racism and the Pauls and such. **** those guys and **** the lost cause. I'm sure there were good Oberstleutenets from small Germann villages too but nobody named a bunch of streets after them or built statues of them - we should have done the same thing, we just didn't. Instead the losing side was able to rehab its villains, and continue to act villainously. **** them. Streets get their names changed all the time, Dowling and Lee and the rest have had their turn. Now somebody or somethign else can have theirs.
Maybe you didn't really mean to reply to me. If you did, you are reading a whole lot into what I wrote. All I'm saying, is yesterday I had no idea who Dowling was. Today I do. I doubt I'm alone. I agree it should never have been named after him. 100% behind changng streets named after Jeff Davis, or Lee, or Nathan Bedford Forrest. For a forgotten person like Dowling, the remediation appears to possibly glorifiy him more than letting him remain forgotten. I am just introducing it as a general thought, as opposed to a definately conclusion. Yesterday I could drive on Dowling and it was a random street with a random name. Going forward, every time I see the street, I'll think of the 2nd Battle of Sabine Pass. Now that people are trumpeting his name and everybody knows who he is, it should be changed ASAP. My favorite street name history in Houston is Tierwester. It's named after a German immigrant who basically lived at the end of the street. His name wasn't Tierwester, but nobody could read his Gothic script handwriting or understand him when he said his real name, so Tierwester was the best approximation that the people naming the street could come up with. Edit: Though maybe he deserves a street name for that awesome 'stache: Also, "Bank of Bacchus" is a cool name for a bar.
This has come up before. Sam sees any defense of Southern heritage as a propaganda tactic to rehabilitate slavery. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be a covert operative or merely a manipulated stooge in the grand design.
Should we honor the memory of those who served and fought to preserve the Union by NOT naming public places after Confederate politicians, soldiers, and the like?
Not all parts of one's heritage should be defended. Especially when one's heritage is so intrinsically linked to an abominable institution that even today people (including posters on this board) try to justify. The economy of the American South was built on slavery, and the southern states tried to shatter the union to preserve that disgusting practice. None of that is worth defending or celebrating. IMO. You may feel differently.
The best way to settle this is to not name it after black or white people. I for one vote for Jackie Chan street. No one hates Jackie Chan right?
Who knows who the next rape scandal will hit though. My own feeling is that we're better off not naming streets and schools and buildings after people (or companies, which are people after all). And certainly not people who are still alive. One day, you think this guy is the greatest ever, and the next the historiography changes and he's suddenly an embarrassment to you. Just name streets after animals and you'll have no problems. The titmouse and the horny toad will never fall out of fashion.
Well said. They lost the war, but they won the battle to remember the war. Long past time to correct that.
