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The Give JVG Time Argument

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Sishir Chang, Dec 22, 2004.

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  1. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    My gripe with the give "JVG time argument" is that if you look at in the past two seasons and this one the Rockets have yet to show any major improvement and if this season holds out and are even back sliding.

    In the 2002-2003 season we finished with 43 wins and missed the playoffs by 1 game.

    In the 2003-2004 season we finished with just 2 more wins and made the playoffs as a low seed.

    Currently the Rockets are on a pace to finish where they did in 2002-2003 and probably not make the playoffs.

    The problem that I got is that under a full season of JVG he failed to significantly improve the Rox. Now he's been given a revamped team featuring many of his players without the trouble makers and we're seeing the Rox still playing inconsistent error prone ball and very possibly not making the playoffs.

    It seems to me that JVG has his shot now but is failing to deliver a substantially better product than Rudy did or with a team that Rudy built.

    Maybe my expectations are unrealistic but given how the Rox are now supposed to be firmly JVG's team the results seem dissapointing.
     
  2. Summer Song Giver

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    It's a whole new team, we took a step backwards at every position except SG when we made the trade with Orl. It will take time to get the old contracts off the books and replace them with players who can hopefully earn their pay.
     
  3. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Agree for the most part. I am not a reactionary, kneejerk "fire jvg" bleater, but I also think that he bears a share of the blame.

    My biggest problem is his personnel decisions. It is undoubtable that he exercises a large degre of influence here (Ward, Oakley, etc) and he has largely revamped the team according to his ideas, considering that only Yao, Taylor and Nachbar remain from the pre-Van Gundy era.

    Well, the players that have been brought in since then, in a word, suck, with maybe the exception of Jackson at times, Sura in brief flashes, and Tracy of course. Now obviously part of this is Dawson too, but JVG, for the most part, appears to have gotten who he wanted. Well, who he wanted sucks and doesn't really work. Conventional wisdom is that he got rid of Francis because he couldn't work in his system. He got exactly what he wanted, but it turns out that his "system" breaks down when he got rid of cocky emotional type players and replaces them with introverts because you end up with games that feature no effort whatsoever.
     
    #4 SamFisher, Dec 22, 2004
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2004
  4. Willis25

    Willis25 Contributing Member

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    I just posted this under the "can we pull it together" - but it also applies here. Yesterday I posted a poll and over 50% of the posters are firmly in the HATE JVG camp - which is a position I cannot possibly understand.

    I think that all in all most posters on this board are true Rocket fans and want the best for the team. That being said - I think that the fire JVG camp should really give the man some time. He has only been here for a little more than one season and this current squad is starting to run more and looks to be getting better. Tmac was out for a few games early on, and JVG tried some poor experiments with Mo T and Howard reversing roles (starter vs. bench)

    and yes they have lost 4 games at the very end by not being able to finish teams off but it takes chemistry, time and patience to prevent that from happening - They also won 2 games on a fluke (the Clips and the Spurs). I think that once this team gets back over 500 - it will find its heart and soul and start winning some games.

    I also disagree with the poster that says the good teams will start to pull away - the Spurs might pull away, but I think that if the shooters cool off, the Suns and Sonics may start dropping some games. I also think that the Wes tbeing very stacked will prevent any 1 team from distancing itself from the pack (since they will always have to play against each other).
     
  5. GRENDEL

    GRENDEL Contributing Member

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    Totally agree Willis25. Patience people, patience
     
  6. clove

    clove Contributing Member

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    Forget about november, we were learning how to play D.

    Looking at december, there is no reason to panic. Our offense is getting better by game.

    Give this team more time.
     
  7. edc

    edc Contributing Member

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    Eighteen months. "really, really soon" ain't happening.
     
  8. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    I'm not calling for JVG's head right away but I am frustrated that we aren't seeing any major improvement.

    I'll admit I was leery of seeing him hired and also was leery about the Francis trade. Those who supported JVG last year talked about how JVG would discipline the team and have them play tough consistent basketball. When they still played inconsistent many pinned the blame on Francis and other players for not buying into JVG's system. Well now we've revamped the team to fit JVG and we're still seeing the Rox play inconsistent ball.

    I understand many of you in the give JVG more time are sick of the "Fire JVG" threads so I'm going to turn this thing on its head.

    How much time are you willing to give JVG to turn this team around?

    I'll admit I don't won't him fired right now but if we're under .500 at the All Star break I think that's the time to start thinking about a change.
     
  9. clove

    clove Contributing Member

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    If we are under .500 at ASG, no injuries, I'll join you.

    In the beginning of the season, I said I give this team the first 30 games to get to .500.
     
  10. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    So how long are the give JVG more time crowd going to give him now?
     
  11. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Still plenty of time. How is it his fault that Yao had 10 turnovers? How is it his fault that nobody besides Yao or McGrady could do anything?

    I don't see anything in his coaching approach that is so horrible that warrants firing him. The offense looked brutal early in the season, yes, but he adjusted and now it looks pretty good. Losing to the Bobcats is bad, but bad losses happen, and it doesn't mean you have to automatically make drastic changes.

    Give him time, give him more true starters than 2, and then lets see what happens.
     
  12. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    Just curious, then do you think the trade was a bad idea?

    Numerically that cost us three overall decent starters for one.

    Do you think this season would be going differently without the trade?
     
  13. pasox2

    pasox2 Contributing Member
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    Nobody ever deserves more time. You have to earn it. He hasn't.
     
  14. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Look at the Magic, they are only 3 games ahead of us, even with 4 true starters. The trade may have cost us in the short term, but in the long term it will be great for us.
     
  15. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    How hasn't he earned it? I believe he has made the playoffs every year he has coached, including his first year with the Rockets.
     
  16. topfive

    topfive CF OG

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    If we were losing to the better teams while playing hard, and still finding a way to beat the bad teams, I'd agree with you. But that's not the case. JVG, GTFO!
     
  17. clove

    clove Contributing Member

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    I think we give-it-more-timers are about to be ambushed for the next couple of days. I just want to get a post in to let yall know I got your back. lol. Next game can't come fast enough.
     
  18. clove

    clove Contributing Member

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    obsolutely. We'd be 15-11 right now on the way to a first round playoff exit.
     
  19. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    For all the give JVG more timers out there (GVGMT) hows that for an acronym.

    As I said in another thread if JVG can really turn this thing around I'll gladly eat a supersize order of crow.

    So to Clove, Mr Clutch, Willis and all the other GVGMT as long as JVG is our coach I hope you're right.
     

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