It depends on how you define winning or success. If you define it as defeating sadam and having military control over most of the country, or killing more of them than they are killing us, then yes we are winning. If you define it as meeting our objective of beating the terrorists and building a democracy or limiting loss of life. I'd say we are probably losing on that front. There is no doubt we can succeed in Iraq. It will just be alot messier and require more resources than the administration or anyone is willing to admit to. Iraq is a mess right now, and if we want to actually build a permanant pro US government over there, then we will be there for years. I'm thinking longer than a decade. Because if we leave, the religous freaks that hate us as much as Sadam did will take over and we would have done this for nothing.
Based on my discussions with those who have served in Iraq: We're winning big time...and it's not even close. Based on the liberal media: quagmire with no end in sight. Funny how the media can influence people the way it wants...
Based on the poll in here... not everyone is duped by the media's crap, and/or some of us have actual contact with troops serving there who tell us don't believe all the negativity (that is, YES war is unpleasant, but it could be way, way, way worse... I've been told that news reporters will literally wait in the "green zone" hotels until they hear an explosion or see an ambulance, then they'll chase it to the scene of the terroist attack and shoot footage -as bloody and graphic as possible- then go back to a safer area and film the "on the scene" reporting footage.... the troops there find our media's lack of reality, lack of care to report ANY positive story from there to be quite disgusting and a sad reflection on our media as a whole. Many of their eyes have been opened, to say the least, on just how biased the media is.) Go ahead, Libs... call me a liar. After all, I support the President you address in the same manner. But I'll not go to hell over such a small thing as the truth. (see Revelation 21:8 if you're curious as to what I mean here.) We're actually winning, as wars are "won"... and you all know it.
it depends on what you think winning is in the war. The us did beat the military of iraq. And they captured sadam. But to many innocent have died. and the war began for false reasons. so i say losing. (there are no winners in war)
We are winning so much that the reporters aren't safe outside the small green zone in the capitol. Even there they are only relatively safe. Very little of the country is actually secure enough for reporters who aren't imbedded to travel outside the greenzone.
That's funny, based on my discussions with people that have served and left and those that are serving now, we are in a quagmire and they see our current goals of trying to train the Iraqis to fight the insurgents as a joke. One guy told me that they suspected at least HALF the people they train to fight the insurgents of being insurgents themselves and that they don't trust any of them.
Really? That's interesting. I have a friend that I've grown up with who is in the Army and has served in Iraq. He said it's a huge mess over there and is only getting worse.
You're not a liar, you probably believe what you say is true, even though its not. I suppose I could speculate you were being willfully blind but in your case it is likely untrue as you don't seem devious as much delusional. Wolfowitz floated that ridiculous Green zone theory last spring. It was absurd then, and the violence has only gotten worse since. Now the attacks occur in the Green zone, parts of which are off limits anyway, and due to the risk of getting your head cut off on the internet, journalists are strongly dissuaded by the military from going anywhere at all outside it. Oh, and by the way: violence in Iraq is at an all time high yet news reporting about it is at a low ebb. Please explain this discrepancy with respect to your theories, you can even use scripture if you want.
ok, you're a liar and a pretty convinced liar at that. you asked for it, so let me be the first to give you what you want. I didn't know that truth was a such a small thing where you come from. Is that like calling terrorism a nuisance or something?
I love the fact that a bunch of internet warriors on a basketball bbs are able to tell if we're winning or losing the war...
”War is a too serious matter to be left to the generals” The question is about perception, are people not allowed to have one?
I voted I don't know. Once the war of liberation devolved into an islamic guerilla war I think the conventional American perception of winning and losing lost it's meaning. Somewhere a year or so ago I posted the proposition that we might be falling into a trap in Iraq. (a then uncaptured) Saddam knew that he could not oppose the US in a conventional war but that the blueprint for defeating a super power had already been drawn in Viet Nam. By disolving his shock troops into the general population, Saddam then and now the baathist, could use the idea that they are the defenders of islam to win the hearts and minds of the local population and carry out a war of attrition until the will of the American people is spent. If there is a weak link in American power it is that as a free and democratic society we care about the fate of our fighting men. A tyrant has no such hesitation and will use whatever coersion he needs to keep the youth of his nation lining up for cannon fodder duty. I've said before, it looks to me like the best outcome we can get out of Iraq is a Shiite dominated islamic democracy that looks a lot like Iran probably with Al Sistani as the head mullah. That sucks but for 1200 years these people have be brainwashed that Islam is the sole philosophy for truth, religeon and government. For thousands of years before that they have known only fuedal and warlord systems of government. There has never been the idea of the power of the individual, there is no tradition of independent thought or free expression of ideas. We might be able to influence secular reforms in Iraq given enough time. But for now I'm sure the beseiged people there would rather put their trust in Allah.
