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Vince Young hints at desire to be in Houston

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by KDJ3, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. rezdawg

    rezdawg Contributing Member

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    I'll take Yates, his potential, and his contract...no one else that is remotely available, gives us that.
     
  2. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne Contributing Member

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    Houston hints at desire for VY to be nowhere near the Texan s.
     
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  3. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    I don’t think I’m “right” – no one is “right.” But has the total lack of support for your position given you any hesitation that perhaps you’ve overvalued the QBs you listed/undervalued TJ Yates?

    That’s certainly viable. But you then cede control over the process. What if the 4 best WRs are gone before you pick? And then you still have to find a replacement for Brooks Reed; you could use some LB/S/CB/ depth/upgrades; your OL needs some depth, as does your DL. And you might need to find a TE/FB. And you still need a PR, plus possibly a kicker…

    So by using up what little available cash you have on a back-up QB – a position you already have filled cheaply - those other holes become draft-day priorities, which you have no control over and a limited number of picks.

    First of all, 5th round. Not that it matters, but…

    cardpire… Look, cards on the table, man – I was among those that absolutely posted, “Shouldn’t they at least call Mississippi?…” when Schaub went down. I hated myself for asking but, like you, I feared a potential Super Bowl season was going to go to waste.

    But here’s the deal - *any* back-up is going to greatly reduce our chances. And I think that’s where we’re disconnecting. Jake Delhomme dropped a 1 TD/5 INTs performance in his last playoff appearance – 5 years ago. They weren’t going to beat Baltimore with him any more than they would have with… Jason Campbell. Or Shaun Hill. Or AJ Feeley. Or, yes- TJ Yates.

    But Yates has two very important things going for him: 1) cost; 2) potential. He’s been very good (twice against Cincinnati), or, at the very least, safe (Atlanta) enough to convince me that with a full offseason to build on his experience from last year, he’ll grow into a more than competent back-up QB; possibly with the potential to be Schaub’s heir apparent.

    I would not trade him for any of the players you’ve listed and neither would the Texans. You don’t maintain championship-level teams by wasting resources on guys that will ride the bench if all goes according to plan.
     
  4. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Contributing Member

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    What kind of team would give up on a rookie QB because he had one bad playoff game? Especially one who isn't even supposed to be your starter?

    Also:

    Yates 2011 QB rating - 80.7
    Young 2011 QB rating - 60.8

    Yates career QB rating - 80.7
    Young career QB rating - 74.4

    Yates - warts and all - is just better.
     
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  5. cardpire

    cardpire Member

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    you are assuming jacoby jones is only replaceable with a top 4 wr from the draft. i never said that. sure i'd prefer we finally get a top notch #2, but that's not what is necessary simply to fill the "void" that would be left bycutting jacoby.



    i applaud you for being among the few who understands how sickening of a decision it was to waste away our playoff berth by unnecessarily turning over the reigns to tj yates, but i don't understand how you can both understand that, and still think all the things you said in the 2nd paragraph.

    so, you think the cowboys, bears, lions, the eagles last year, etc. made awful decisions by "wasting" resources to sign those veterans as backups? also, do you see a trend in those championship-level teams who are "wasting" resources on good backup qbs? those are teams that agree with me.
     
  6. cardpire

    cardpire Member

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    first of all, i never said they should give up on him, i said that i do not want to see him on the field this season if schaub were to get hurt.

    second of all, why do you think QB rating is the end-all to any debate? it's a flawed metric.

    to put things into perspective as simply as possible: sam bradford and colt mccoy had awful qbr's too last year. do you think they would have equally awful ratings if they were the starting qb of the texans?
     
  7. rolyat93

    rolyat93 Contributing Member

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    Vince Young is terrible and comes with too much baggage if he lands in Houston. If you told me to choose between TJ and VY I'll take TJ all day.
     
  8. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    I think you’re putting way too much stock into the back-up QB. If Matt Schaub gets hurt again, our chances take a sharp detour into the nearest ditch, regardless of who the back-up is. Jake Delhomme guarantees you absolutely nothing; he’s every bit as capable of turning in the same bad performance as Yates did against Baltimore.

    And yes, I formed an opinion before seeing Yates. Having seen him start eight games, the kid has potential. I truly believe he'll grow into a competent back-up this year.

    Let’s reset – I’ve never argued against having a competent back-up: It is absolutely vital in this day and age. Where we differ: I believe the Texans have a competent back-up already; one I would rate as good, if not better than the QBs signed by the teams you mentioned. (Orton is probably the exception; but he was also far and away the most expensive and thus never an option for the Texans.)

    The Bears are an interesting comparison – both teams were 7-3 last year when they lost their QBs. The Texans finished 3-3 (including an exhibition loss to the Titans in which Yates played a series), won their division, won a playoff game, and took the #2 seed on the road down to the final play of the game. The Bears went 1-5 with two QBs who couldn’t post a 70+ QBR. I guarantee you – the Bears would have killed Mike Ditka to have a back-up play as competently as TJ Yates did.

    So they *had* to find a viable back-up. In terms of resources – they likely had more $$$ than the Texans (which is why it’s disingenuous to include them and the others – it’s not apples to apples; again, the Texans are out of money, these other teams have better cap situations) – but yes, overall, I would argue they wasted money on Jason Campbell, who might be better than McNown/Heine but is still, in his own right, terrible.

    Also, I find it interesting you listed the Eagles, who signed a guy you’re mentioning for the Texans – Philadelphia went 1-2 in Baby Vince’s three starts with 4TDs/8 INTs and a QBR of 60.8, including a loss to 7-9 Seattle; beat them, they win the division. That you think *he’s* an upgrade over TJ Yates, who steered a team to a division championship, beat three playoff teams and was 4-4 overall, speaks to there being a blind spot with you toward Yates.

    He’s better than you think he is, and better than his one terrible afternoon in Baltimore. You're putting much too much stock in a really bad day.
     
  9. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    BTW...
    If you cut Jacoby, you'd be left with 2 WRs on the roster. So, point taken - it doesn't have to be a top pick - but now you're looking for 2-3 WRs. Again, it's a matter of prioritizing resources. Who's more likely to see the field next year - your 3rd WR or back-up QB? Your 4th WR or back-up QB?
     
  10. cardpire

    cardpire Member

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    no, you are contradicting yourself here, and it is apples to apples. unless the reason that teams with money to spend are allocating that money to a backup qb because they are unable to spend it on upgrading any position that will see game action every sunday beginning week 1 of the season, then, by your definition, they would be wasting resources.

    we aren't talking about the cash-strapped texans in our scenario. we are saying that they hypothetically have $3million available to spend from cutting jacoby.

    he might eventually be better than i think he is. my thoughts on him were dead on last year though. i don't think this of him only because of the ravens game. i thought, based on everything i saw in each game that he played, that it was complete madness to continue to start him, and make him our starting qb for the remainder of the season and postseason, sink or swim. he was reducing the best offense in the league to under 20 ppg. he was throwing more potential picks directly into the hands of opponents that they miraculously dropped than i've ever seen. save for the game-winning drive in cincy, nothing he did made him an upgrade over any stiff that they could have picked up off the street. i can't imagine that he will make appreciable improvements from that this year if his services are needed, and, more importantly, i certainly wouldn't bet on it.

    i think many people in here are enamored by the fact that he was a rookie, managed us to a first round playoff win at home against the worst team in the playoffs who also started a rookie qb, and have hopes that he's the next big thing, because it's fun to get excited about rookies and dream about their potential. i'll stick to going with what my eyes saw.
     
  11. cardpire

    cardpire Member

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    the texans haven't had a legit #2 receiver since their inception. you really think that their #4 wr should be a priority over their backup qb? lester jean is under contract, right? i'm perfectly fine going into the season with him as our #4 wr.
     
  12. Kam

    Kam Contributing Member

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    Your number 2 receiver has been a tight end or a dump off to a back.
     
  13. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    This is why I’m quick to jump back on point; when you push a very specific discussion toward a more general discussion, points get splintered and blurred and the debate starts to lose its way.

    So let’s reset before this gets too fractured: I don’t believe the Texans, specifically, should spend limited resources on a back-up QB, in large part because I believe they already have a competent back-up QB on their roster.

    Generally speaking, I think it’s important to have a competent back-up. If you don’t have one, *and* you have the cap room to sign an "expensive" one… cool, I guess. Having said that, I would argue that the group you’ve listed is horribly mediocre and not worth the money. And I wouldn’t trade TJ Yates for any of them.

    He was, overall, a mediocre QB last year and you’ll never see me argue otherwise. That Kubiak managed 4 wins with him, including the playoffs, is remarkable.

    BUT… there was enough potential flashed, IMO - especially given the unfortunate circumstances that accompanied Yates’ first season (lockout, no OTAs, shortened camp, etc.) – that with a full offseason to build on his experience from last year, Yates will grow into being a competent back-up with the potential to possibly be Schaub’s successor. Further, even as inconsistent as he was last year, I would argue he was as good as any of the scrubs you’ve mentioned - but with a higher ceiling, a younger age and a friendlier cap figure. The Texans would have gone no further with any of the QBs you've cited. With some, they wouldn't have gone as far.

    That is *exactly* what people are enamored with; and you’re being awfully blind to dismiss it all and assume the book has been written on the guy. Further, it’s hard to take your eyes seriously when they apparently see Baby Vince, Jason Campbell, AJ Feeley, et al, as upgrades.

    You and I very likely differ on the definition of a legit #2 and its importance – but if LeStar Jean is your 4th WR, and TJ Yates is your back-up QB, your receiving corps is a much greater concern that your QB position.
     
  14. cardpire

    cardpire Member

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    i never said the book was written on him. i said i do not want him as our qb if schaub gets hurt this year.

    and, i dismiss what yates did last year to a far, far lesser extent than everybody who dismisses vince young's 30-18 career record as insignificant.

    and how is jason campbell not an upgrade over tj yates by any measure?? that's homerism at its finest. he's been good on 2 different teams with complete garbage receivers and offenses to work with.


    i don't understand...are you saying it's important to have a good #4 wr? i also don't understand what this implies that your views are on the importance of a legit #2.
     
  15. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    When you say something like this:
    i think many people in here are enamored by the fact that he was a rookie, managed us to a first round playoff win at home against the worst team in the playoffs who also started a rookie qb, and have hopes that he's the next big thing, because it's fun to get excited about rookies and dream about their potential. i'll stick to going with what my eyes saw.

    It absolutely, postively sounds like you've drawn a conclusion about the guy. I'm struggling to find different ways to read that.

    Neither was a critical factor, frankly. Vince Young is a lousy NFL QB - bad attitude, selfish, entitled... why would you rather have that guy than TJ Yates?

    First of all, you need to take a step back and consider that you're comparing a 7-year veteran picked in the first round to a 5th round rookie... that pretty much sums up Jason Campbell's career.

    Additionally, "good" is certainly subjective - but 82 is the median for NFL QBRs; Campbell's career QBR is 82.8. He's ever-so slightly above-average. In relation to Yates, Campbell's completion % is lower; his YPA is lower; his winning % is lower; 2 points separate their QBRs....... and - again, one is a former first round pick who has 70 career starts; the other is a 5th round third string rookie.

    Further, and you do this *a lot* - you can't have this discussion without also considering: age, potential and salary. Even if we could scientifically prove that Campbell was an upgrade.... it's not enough to cancel out Yates' other advantages, which are significant.

    It's important to have a better #4WR than LeStar Jean.

    Fans here don't understand Kubiak's system and overrate "#2 WR." They already have a legit #2 WR; his name is Owen Daniels. #3, too: Arian Foster. This offense isn't built traditionally. Walter's job is to block, first and foremost, and catch everything underneath secondly.
     
  16. cardpire

    cardpire Member

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    YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT HIS F'ING SKILL LEVEL. You said "It is hard to take my eyes seriously when they apparently see ....Jason Campbell...as upgrades".

    that has nothing to do with age, potential, and salary. you are saying right there that he is a terrible qb and that one would have to be nuts to see him play and still think he is better than TJ Yates. and when you realized you might not have any clue if jason campbell was good or bad, you did some quick research, pulled out your trusty, flawed qbr, and when that basically failed you, you resorted to "wait a minute, what about age and salary?". ( and by the way, he's on a 1 year, $1.5 million salary, which would be absolutely perfect for us, so you can swallow that argument too, even though you were just using it in attempt to duck out of ignorantly professing that jason campbell is terrible)

    jason campbell is LIGHTYEARS better than Yates is right now. that isn't even a debate. he put up that qb rating over 7 years of throwing to nobodies in absolute trainwrecks of offenses. tj yates put up a worse qbr over a 6-game span in the most qbr friendly offense in football. nobody outside of a complete homer would think that tj yates is currently a better qb than jason campbell.
     
  17. cardpire

    cardpire Member

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    exactly. so why on earth is it even remotely important to have a better 4th WR (actual WR) than Lestar Jean? don't really understand what you are saying. or, i do, but it doesn't make any sense.
     
  18. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Contributing Member
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    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Uprising

    Uprising Contributing Member

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    LOL! That gif is awesome.

    *must spread rep around....
     
  20. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Awesome gif indeed :grin:

    'Vince Young would love to be a Texan'

    [rquoter]How he would feel about playing in Houston with the Texans:

    “I would love to play at home. That would be a dream come true and anything I can do to help out with the team, I just saw Arian Foster the other day and gave him a lot of respect when I saw him and just a lot of history with some of the guys around town anyway that I know from knowing each other a while and always keeping in contact with each other, come to my foundation and charity events and football camps so that would be great. I just let Tom take care of that and let him do his job. All I can do is just stay ready, keep working out and training in Houston and waiting for that opportunity to come.”[/rquoter]
     

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