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Military Publications say Rumsfeld must go: Rummy, you're not doin' a heck of a job

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Oski2005, Nov 3, 2006.

  1. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Contributing Member

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    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15552211/

    Military publications: ‘Rumsfeld must go’
    Editorial comes days after Bush affirms defense secretary’s job security

    Just days after President Bush publicly affirmed Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's job security through the end of his term, a family of publications catering to the military will publish an editorial calling for the defense secretary's removal.

    The editorial, released to NBC News on Friday ahead of its Monday publication date, stated, "It is one thing for the majority of Americans to think Rumsfeld has failed. But when the nation's current military leaders start to break publicly with their defense secretary, then it is clear that he is losing control of the institution he ostensibly leads."

    The editorial will appear just one day before the midterm election, in which GOP candidates have been losing ground, according to recent polls.

    "This is not about the midterm elections," continued the editorial, which will appear in the Army Times, Air Force Times, Navy Times, and Marine Corps Times on Monday. "Regardless of which party wins Nov. 7, the time has come, Mr. President, to face the hard bruising truth: Donald Rumsfeld must go."

    The newspapers are published by the Military Times Media Group.

    On Wednesday, Bush had said he wants Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney to remain in his administration until the end of his presidency, extending a vote of confidence to two of the most-criticized members of his team.

    In the same interview, Bush said he did not foresee a change in the immediate future in the number of U.S. troops in Iraq. He said that U.S. generals have assured him that "they've got what they can live with."

    Democrats and Republicans alike have called for Rumsfeld's resignation, arguing he has mishandled the war in Iraq, where more than 2,800 members of the U.S. military have died since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003. Cheney has faced sharp criticism for his hard-line views and is viewed favorably by only about a third of Americans in polls. Bush said that "both those men are doing fantastic jobs and I strongly support them."

    Bush credited Rumsfeld with overseeing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan while overhauling the military. "I'm pleased with the progress we're making," the president said. He replied in the affirmative when asked if he wanted Rumsfeld and Cheney to stay with him until the end.

    The military publications' editorial also painted a grim view of the situation in Iraq, saying, "despite the best efforts of American trainers, the problem of molding a viciously sectarian population into anything resembling a force for national unity has become a losing proposition. For two years, American sergeants, captains and majors training the Iraqis have told their bosses that Iraqi troops have no sense of national identity, are only in it for the money, don't show up for duty and cannot sustain themselves. … And all along, Rumsfeld has assured us that things are well in hand."

    War supporters reconsider
    Also Friday, several conservatives who pushed for the invasion of Iraq said they would not have supported a war if they knew how poorly the Bush administration would handle it, according to Vanity Fair magazine.

    "I think now I probably would have said, 'No, let's consider other strategies for dealing with the thing that concerns us most, which is Saddam (Hussein) supplying weapons of mass destruction to terrorists,"' said Richard Perle, who sat on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Advisory Committee until 2004.

    Kenneth Adelman, who served on the Defense Policy Board with Perle, said Bush, Defense Rumsfeld and others in the administration "turned out to be among the most incompetent teams in the postwar era. Not only did each of them, individually, have enormous flaws, but together they were deadly, dysfunctional."

    Violence in Iraq has continued to climb, with dozens of bodies reportedly found around Baghdad on Friday. Shiites and Sunnis alike fear a reprisal in violent crime when Saddam's trial verdict is announced, which could be as soon as Sunday.

    In the editorial, the military papers quote Army Gen. John Abizaid, chief of U.S. Central Command, as saying to a Senate Armed Services Committee in September, "I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I've seen it ... and that if not stopped, it is possible that Iraq could move towards a civil war."
     
  2. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I await basso's response to this. Are you going to describe these people as blasé? That they have their heads buried in the sand? What say you, basso?



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  3. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    I think Rumsfeld has been allowed to stay on for far too long already. To call our strategy in Iraq imperfect would be a colossal understatement.
     
  4. Zboy

    Zboy Contributing Member

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    What's up with our military leaders?? Either they are with us or with the terrorists!

    Stay the course DAMMIT!
     
  5. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    You won't get one from basso. He has his vision of the war on terror and the way things are. When some facts arise that appear contrary to that vision, he ignores them.

    Notice that basso hasn't said one thing about the fact that Al-Qaeda in internal documents say their hope is that the U.S. will stay in Iraq. Yet despite this basso has still claimed that leaving Iraq is what the terrorists want.

    basso ignores the fact the recent paper with how to build a nuke, is from the early 90's when Iraq had a program, and not from 2002 when they didn't have any hope of a program.

    The guy has his vision of the way things are, and a more desperate need to cling to that vision despite reality than anyone I have seen.
     
  6. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    White House spokesman Tony Snow said Saturday the president has shrugged off an editorial by the Military Times Media Group, which publishes the Army Times, Marine Times, Air Force Times and Navy Times, calling for Bush to fire Rumsfeld. Bushs feels it is merely "grandstanding," he added. The editorial says Rumsfeld has "lost credibility" with top officers.

    http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003352558
     
  7. Colt45

    Colt45 Member
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    Saw him this morning. LOVED his take on the fabulous progress being made in Iraq. Apparently, it's a democratic paradise over there and the all-out civil war is only being waged in a couple of provinces. The fact that the vast majority of the people live in those provinces is of no consequence according to Tony Snowjob.
     
  8. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    So much for "listening to the generals."
     
  9. Burzmali

    Burzmali Member

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    That's funny because this is how I would describe you. Small world.
     
  10. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Nothing to add to the discussion so you immediately go for the personal attack.
     
  11. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    You can describe me as that if you wish. But unlike basso, I will happily discuss any facts and information that you or anyone else puts forward. When basso brought out his papers on Iraq's nuke program, I talked about it. I didn't ignore it and pretend it didn't exist because it would destroy my view of what was going on.
     
  12. Cohen

    Cohen Contributing Member

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    Do you think that stating something so obviously incredibly ignorant reflects poorly on the other person? :confused:
     
  13. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    The military has obvisously been infiltrated by libpigs.
     
  14. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    "Mr. President, I'm sorry, I based my actions on some assumtions that were just flat out wrong. I made an ass out of you and me"

    [​IMG]

    See that wasn't so hard.
     
    #14 Dubious, Nov 6, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2006
  15. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    As much as I dislike Bush and his apathy towards gun rights and immigration, I always thought his staff was a dream team except Colin, who was just a token of Bush Sr.

    I think Rummy just ****ed up, he doesn't really have any political ambition or a hidden agenda.
     
  16. IROC it

    IROC it Contributing Member

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    Dog pile!!!!!!!
     
  17. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Typical libpig answer to everything.
     
  18. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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    Ah yes the man whose job it is to protect our country should be handled with velvet gloves.
    I hope his feelings aren't hurt... poor guy.
     
  19. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    Rumsfeld is doing a great job as Sacretary of defense and David Carr is doing a great job as the Texans quarterback.


    Seriously, if you are a politician or a king and you decide to go to war, you know you better win and win decisively or you are going to get your head chopped off. This war is a stalemate and you can spin it either way (we are building schools or losing 100 soldiers a month). If Bush fired Rumsfeld he is admitting defeat, couple that with losing The House and he would be so impotent the Prime Minister of Lichtenstein wouldn't take his calls.

    Hunker down boys, we're in this thing for two more years.

    ( I mispelled secretary....but actually I like the way it came out)
     
    #19 Dubious, Nov 6, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2006
  20. weslinder

    weslinder Contributing Member

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    Can I ask an honest question (more in line with Rummy's perception in general than this article in particular)? Are all of the Rumsfeld criticizers blaming Rummy because they believe he is responsible for the mess in Iraq? Or do they really blame Bush, but since he's not going anywhere for two years, want to get to him through Rummy? No one who's being honest with himself thinks that the war has been managed well. That being said, Rumsfeld has one of the best track records in the administration. I honestly don't know how much to blame him.
     

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