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Is Harden a top 5 player in the league?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by swyyyguy, Jul 26, 2016.

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Is Harden a top 5 player in the league?

  1. Yes

    75.0%
  2. No

    25.0%
  1. dmoneybangbang

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    It's easier to build a team around Harden than a player like Leonard. Players like Harden are simply more valuable. Leonard is great but he has had several hall of fame players to play with and a hall of fame coach to develop him.

    Would LBJ be so good without being such an elite playmaker? Nope.
     
  2. ReliantTexan

    ReliantTexan Member

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    Yeah which is why I only mentioned spot ups.:rolleyes: I mentioned his total FGs because you said that the vast majority of his shots were open jumpers do you not know how percentage works?
     
  3. YaoMing#1

    YaoMing#1 Member

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    Who's in your top 5? Just curious.

    Mine is

    Lebron
    Durant
    Curry
    Harden
    Westbrook

    And imo there's actually a big gap between Harden and Westbrook.

    I'd say by your requirements for sure Lebron and curry have the biggest gap because of their championships/MVPs and numbers.

    Durant would be right after because of his MVP award and his numbers which are all time.

    But after that who has a better resume than Harden? By your standards.

    Kawie Leonard has a championship and finals MVP but how long has he really been a top 10 player? 1 year? Maybe 2 tops? Because his numbers are not indicating that he's in that class at least yet.

    Westbrook? He's got the numbers he's had some playoff success but he's also a 500. Player in the one season he didn't play with KD? So is he really more proven than Harden? I don't think so but I certainly not going to really argue with ppl that think he's better seeing as he's top 5 imo.

    And then also I feel Harden is getting almost penalized for making the playoffs every year. I mean for all intents and purpose yes he has only been out the 1st round 1/4 trips to the postseason but all this has been done before Harden bad hit his prime. That imo has to factor somewhere in this question. Also what about his time in OKC does that not count? Was he not the main reason they won the only WCF series that team ever won in the KD Westbrook era? Does that fact he closed out the Spurs and was the best player in that series hold not weight?

    im just curious what your thoughts are on this?

    And for the record I truly believe harden became a top 5 player the last 30 games of the first season with Dwight when we lost to the trailblazers. Go back on check how great he was playing that stretch before the playoffs and that was at age 24.
     
  4. Vivi

    Vivi Member

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    Lol at Kawhi as a potential #1 option on offense
     
  5. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    And yet there are dumbasses that want to trade Harden, a legit top 5 player and superstar who can carry a team, for someone like Kawhi and Westbrook. Westbrook, I can understand. He's flashy, hyper-athletic and a lot of fans are too ignorant to know any better. It's like those same idiots who carried on about Kobe's last game, not understanding that he threw up an ocean's worth of threes and bricks.
     
  6. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    What additions that you're not applying to the other guys in this convo of top 5? He's done essentially what they've been able to do.... Any difference is in large part to personnel or coaching.
     
  7. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    Once again :confused: Try reading....

    Which makes no sense... Since no one is talking about his total FGs. :rolleyes:
     
  8. Milos

    Milos Member

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    For me, the 3 above you listed are clearly alone in the top TIER 1 currently
    Then, you have another TIER 2 that includes Harden, Kawhi, Paul, Westbrook, LMA & Blake
    That's 9 total already ...


    Really surprised at the overall lack of love for a trio of Kentuckys Cats that (IMO) are the 3 best bigs to enter the league in the past 5-6 years ...
    Also in this second tier are 3 of Cal's Bigs - ADavis, DCousins, and KATowns

    If you take AVG PER the past 3 seasons, you get a very clear confirmation of a Top 11:
    1 - KD (28.5)
    2 - Curry (27.9)
    3 - LBJ (27.6)
    4 - ADavis (27.4)
    5 - Russ (27.1)
    6 - CP3 (26)
    7 - Harden (25.2)
    8 - DCousins (25)
    9 - BGriffin (22.9)
    10 - Kawhi (22.5)
    11 - LMA (22.3)


    According to these ratings, both Russ and Paul have been better than Harden
    Still, I'd rank neither over James, and wouldn't trade him for either
    CP3 is just too old to take over the much younger, more durable Harden
    I wouldn't make that trade, but as a basketball player, CP3 has been the more dominant 2way force to this point

    Westbrook is probably Beard's chief competition (among perimeter players) for that Top 5 spot
    Both are severely ball-dominant Gs who are unstoppable getting to the rim to finish and/or go to the line, but often struggle finding the perfect balance of keeping teammates involved while knowing when to take over
    Russell's advantages over James: athleticism, effort, sometimes DEF intensity (though he's nowhere near the IND defensive monster he should be with those physical gifts)
    Harden's advantages over WB: durability, 3pt shooting, sometimes court smarts (though his decisions can at times look as bad as any boneheaded WB play)
    Mainly bc I feel Harden's game will age much better than WB's, I'd still turn down an offer of a swap from OKC ... but I'd be VERY tempted


    ADavis (the league's top PF) is clearly a Top 5 player, and by this measure, he was The Best player in 2015 (something Harden has never done)
    His weakness is what could be a chronic injury problem (something else Harden's never done)
    Overall, I'd definitely still take him over Harden as a centerpiece to build around going forward if offered by NO in a trade

    Boogie (the league's top C) is clearly a Top 10 player, and certainly (like Harden) an argument can be made for him in the Top 5
    His weakness is in all his off-court issues with coaches/management/teammates/The World (a problem which also applies to Harden)
    Because he seems to be a MAJOR nutcase, and has never even been to the playoffs, I would pass on a Cousins-for-Harden deal

    They both have never won much, but I don't entirely blame either for failing to lift 2 of the more historically pathetic franchises out of the gutter
    Harden did make the WCF as #1 guy on his team, but did so with Dwight ... a FAR better #2 teammate than either Davis or Cousins have ever enjoyed


    Then you have KATowns ...
    All he did as a 19yo rookie was put up a higher PER (22.5) than all but 9 others have AVERAGED over the past 3 seasons

    Here's what other recent HoF/Superstar Bigs have posted as rookies with their respective ages:
    90 - Admiral (26.3) @ 24
    93 - Shaq (22.9) @ 20
    97 - Duncan (22.6) @ 21
    11 - Blake (21.9) @ 21
    13 - ADavis (21.7) @ 19
    85 - Dream (21.1) @ 22
    03 - Yao (20.6) @ 22
    02 - Pau (19.5) @ 21
    85 - Barkley (18.3) @ 21
    05 - Dwight (17.2) @ 19
    07 - LMA (17.1) @ 21
    03 - Amare (16.2) @ 20
    96 - KG (15.8) @ 19
    11 - DCousins (14.6) @ 20
    86 - Mailman (13.7) @ 22
    99 - Dirk (12.8) @ 20

    To me, that indicates KAT will be in the Top 5 very soon, like maybe even before this Xmas
    At minimum, he has already outperformed every teen Big ever to enter the NBA
    In fact, in the past 30 years, only The Admiral, Shaq & Duncan have outperformed KAT ... and they did so at an average age of 22
    KAT still has 3 full seasons ahead of him before he's even 22 years old


    So my current Top 5 would be this:
    1 - LBJ
    2 - KD
    3 - Curry
    4 - ADavis
    5 - Harden

    Yes, James Harden is a Top 5 player currently ...
    But his hold on that #5 spot is tenuous at best
    KAT is lurking, and if James isn't careful ...

    KAT, Wiggins, Thibs and the upstart TWolves may blow right by him into the Top 5 and the playoffs this season
     
  9. Htownballer38

    Htownballer38 Member

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    It's amazing how sensitive this type of topic is around here. Lol people can't voice their own opinions without someone tripping because they don't have Harden in their top 5. Acting as if 6 or 7 is a knock on Harden. Good freaking grief. It's not that serious and the ranking 1-7 is pretty darn close.
     
  10. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    I agree entirely except for him being the best player in that WCF... KD was the best.... Harden was pivotal though in them advancing... He was the glue and was clutch AF.... That was true against LA too... Just ask Kobe.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WJFfEtHyC-8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  11. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    I agree with you Harden is top 5, but please stop using PER like this as a determining factor.... Two big flaws with that advanced stat that you should know.

    Also throw Boogie Cousins off your list completely.... Just no.
     
  12. swyyyguy

    swyyyguy Member

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  13. HardenTime

    HardenTime Member

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    if harden had a finals that Curry had just had, ESPN would be roasting him all summer. But Curry as i said before, gets YET ANOTHER pass from the media for his garbage play and terrible defense lol. Curry had more turnovers than assists in the ENTIRE playoffs. Can you imagine if that was Harden, ugh no i dont have to imagine the 13 turnover game. But whatever

    Stephen Jackson also works for ESPN, this is a website that thought it would be smart for us to trade harden lol. They want misery for the Rockets. Even ESPN's own beat writer who covers the rockets, Calvin watkins hates us, and is one of the biggest trolls on twitter.
     
  14. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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  15. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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  16. BHannes2BHonest

    BHannes2BHonest 2 SOLID FOR WEIRD AZZES

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    Is this a top 5 logo tho?
    [​IMG]
     
  17. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    You have to be able to carry your team to be a top 5 player and honestly, I just don't think Kawhi should be in that conversation. Westbrook is, but I can't see Kawhi as having that ability.
     
  18. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    I agree. Nobody would confuse Kawhi Leonard as a Top 5 player without Popavich and his supporting cast. And that is not a knock on Kawhi. Ending up in a favorable environment/situation is hugely important.
     
  19. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    personally I have cp3 in my top 5 still. with Harden right outside the top 5 at 6 followed by Kawhi.
     
  20. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    CP3/Pbev
    Brewer/KJ
    Ariza
    DMo/TJones
    D12
    coached by JBB

    vs

    Austin Rivers
    Harden/Reddick
    WJohnson/JGreen
    Blake
    DeAndre
    coached by Doc
     

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