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[ESPN] Who's better: Griffin or Love?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Mr. Dominant, Jan 27, 2012.

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Who's better? [Explain why in a post below.]

  1. Griffin

    36 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. Love

    144 vote(s)
    80.0%
  1. The CDN Dream

    The CDN Dream Member

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    LA is better.
    - better defender, has better post game then both of them.. but gets less boards
    - love is like the only good rebounder on the twolves while LA is wallace,camby and others
    - I notice a lot that love will sacrifice closing out on his man in order to secure a rebound... therefore i see him as a little bit of a stat padder
    - if i were to have a team i would take (from these 3) LA, Love, Griffin in that order
     
  2. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    I can;t figure out how this category measures into anything? Leaping ability is important, if it makes you better at a tangible basketball category - blocks, rebounds, scoring, etc. But you don't need to measure leaping ability to see how good someone is at those categories... just measure those categories.

    Blake wins the leaping ability category, but blocks fewer shots and is a worse rebounder?? great, so how does that make him better in any way? more exciting perhaps.

    see above. i guess it factors into what type of player they are, but all different types can be successful. I mean, they could have included basketball IQ, jump-ball success, inbound passing, etc. if they're going to include stuff like this.

    He isn't an elite rebounder... but he is a proficient scorer, getting to the line or not. He has a higher TS% than Blake, and scores more per 36 minutes. And I do believe he's a better defender. He also has a higher PER than Blake.

    I think it's fair to conclude that LA is underrated and Blake is a little overrated. One could argue that LA is better than Blake, for sure.

    But better than Love? That's a stretch. Love has a higher PER, a higher TS%, is a better rebounder, and scores more per 36 minutes. LA is still probably a slightly better defender, but not much.

    Love is definitely the top PF in the game, in my view.
     
  3. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Contributing Member

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    So you are saying Griffin makes no improvements at all in 4-5 years??? Head-scratcher.

    With the lack of real centers nowadays, PFs basically are the real big men. You need to average 10 boards point blank, unless you're Amare or Bosh or dirk, who are soft around the boards.

    LA's TS% is 53.9, and BG is 53.1, minimal at best. It's not something worth debating. LA has a more polished offensive game, and a much better FT shooter. But nevertheless, defenses don't fear LA like they do with Blake.

    I've said before that Love is the best PF in the game in other threads. But for this post, I responded to a guy who claimed LA is better than both, which he isn't.
     
    #23 t_mac1, Jan 27, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  4. mrjohn

    mrjohn Member

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    Stock options.
     
  5. Clips/Roxfan

    Clips/Roxfan Member

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  6. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    I kind of agree with you, though don't think it is so point blank. Clearly, Love and Blake are better rebounders. However, Portland as a team is meaningfully better than both the Clippers and Wolves, at rebounding: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/rebounds-per-game

    But clearly, LA loses in this cateogry.

    defenses dont fear Blake. This is the point some are making. He's not regularly double teamed or anything. Is he a capable competent scorer? Sure, but so is LA, perhaps more-so.

    The idea that Blake is this superstar PF, feared by defenses, etc. is a byproduct of the media and fan fascination with his athleticism and focus on him being in LA, especially now with CP3.

    I personally think Aldridge is the better offensive post player.

    While I don't think he is either, I think it's at least close enough to be debated, especially if you think he's a better defender, which I do.
     
  7. TheBookOfOlu

    TheBookOfOlu Member

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    The 28 people that voted Griffin over Love, don't watch basketball
     
  8. dharocks

    dharocks Contributing Member

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    I'm not sure it's fair to knock Griffin by saying that teams don't game plan around stopping him... I mean, for starters we obviously aren't privy to what's discussed in coaches meetings and team film study, but moreover, how DO you game plan for a guy that can put up 25ppg by just finishing lobs, or catching the ball 5 feet from the rim, making one move and throwing down a dunk/getting fouled? If you want to look at the guy's impact offensively, look at the FTAs he gets per game. Look at all the easy buckets he gets.

    Now look at someone like Aldridge. Does he have the most polished offensively game of the three? Certainly. But here's a guy that takes a bunch of mid-to-long range jump shots (and yes, he does convert them at an above average rate), even though he's a very effective finisher in the paint. You don't double a guy taking those shots. For all his skills, do they translate to Aldridge being the more EFFECTIVE player on offense?

    I'm not sure they do. But don't get me wrong, he is a very good player. But is he appreciably better than Chis Bosh was in Toronto? Or any better, for that matter? I'm not so sure.
     
  9. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    All the numbers point to yes. Higher TS%, higher scoring average per 36 minutes. Better PER.

    Moreover, Blake clearly can be defended. Chuck Hayes has done it. Heck, Speights did a pretty good job in the first quarter last night. He's not easily defended, but can be. Not that there's as much double teaming going on in the NBA these days as their used to be, but you don't see Blake getting double team much, if ever. that's how I know he's not feared.

    Also, I'm not sure about the fascination with FTA. I understand their importance, and how they can be a good thing. But if player A scores more and more effectively and efficiently than player B, but player B gets more FTA attempts, does that make player B better? Of course not. Considering that the whistle doesn't get blown quite as much in crunch time, it's an even worse factor to consider, as we've come to find out with Kevin Martin.

    Look, I'm not definitively saying Aldridge is better than Blake. I don't really have a conclusion there. I think switch either player and there is probably very little change to team performance. And I understand why it's easier to be swayed by someone who can dunk from seemingly anywhere, but that's not the be all end all.

    If Griffin can develop a mid-range jumper and better back to the basket game, he will clearly become a better, more complete offensive player, because Aldridge doesn't dominate inside like he maybe should or can, for whatever reason.
     
  10. mogrod

    mogrod Contributing Member

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    I think this compares to the early debate on if Yao or Dwight was the better center. One is a pure athlete, especially for his size and the other is extremely skilled.

    I'd personally take Love over Griffin. He still is a good athlete at his position but can do much more on the offensive side of the ball and will work/fight his tail off. Just my opinion though.
     
  11. dharocks

    dharocks Contributing Member

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    Ah, it looks like you're using this year's numbers. I'm actually going off last year since I'm not quite comfortable with the sample size for this year. Clearly Aldridge has been better so far offensively in 2011-12 to this point, but I think we'll be seeing improvement in Blake's performance as the season goes on, especially considering his age.

    As for FTAs, in addition to getting opposing bigs in foul trouble and putting your team in the bonus, they're generally converted at a much higher rate than FGAs. In this regard Blake's not doing himself any favors this year because he's shooting such a putrid %, but it's so much lower than what he showed last year that I think he's due for a correction. We'll see.

    But anyway, in terms of comparing the two overall, it's still the rebounding that jumps out at me. One could even argue that Blake's proficiency on the defensive glass closes the gap slightly between his and Aldridge's defensive impact.
     
  12. pmac

    pmac Contributing Member

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    I'm just not sure the big man is all that important in the NBA anymore. The rules have changed to a point that I think in the next few years we'll begin to see Griffin or Love is a much less important question than Paul or Rubio.

    It seems to me that a dominant perimeter player with good frontcourt defense is much more key to winning now than big guys that can score.
     
  13. Asian Sensation

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    This is correct.

    Great points made here.

    I think Love, Griffin and LA are all great players and it's hard to pick who's better as they obviously bring different skill sets. Right now it's too early to judge who's better. I think all three are doing equally well and they seem poised to be franchise players for a long time to come for their respective teams.

    We can debate all we want but none of the three are head and shoulders better than the other. It all boils down to preference. If you like flashy/athletic players ala Kemp in his prime you're obviously going to pick Griffin. If you like old school players with good post skills and fundamentals you're picking Love. If you like a player that's not particularily great at anything but he's reliable and consistant you're taking Aldridge.
     
  14. Akim523

    Akim523 Member

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    I hate to say this but dirk is way better than any of these two
     
  15. inishi

    inishi Member

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    Kevi Love, what a dumb question. LA is goo, but he's not better than Love either.
     
  16. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    LMA is better simply because he's a much better defender than either of them. With the way the rules are set up, funneling opponents to your big men is the only consistent way to have a good defense, perimeter defenders can only do so much because of the no-handcheck rule.

    I'd say LMA is the best out of the three, by a long shot.
     
  17. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    well, I'm going off numbers that have actually happened, not what may happen. LA actually scored more efficiently last year. Blake was less efficient last year.

    I am happy to concede that Blake has more ability to improve over time. He's younger and less experienced. But my analysis (and I believe this thread's) is who is currently better.

    You kind of answered your own question there. If he was shooting a higher %, he'd be better, more efficient player. He's shooting worse than last year, but he's yet to be a good free throw shooter.

    Yes, fouls do get opposing bigs in foul trouble... but I'm not really seeing that particularly. Blake gets fouled a lot by a variety of players. Again, he's not having his most success in one on one type situations. Sure, it gets the other team in foul trouble, and to your point, the Clippers are third in the league in average ft's attempted per game. again, though, to your point, they don't shoot at a high clip. Portland makes more ft's per game.

    True... but as I noted, Aldridge is on a better rebounding team, so it's not as if his relative worse rebounding is hurting his team. I concede he is not and never will be the rebounder Blake is. But I'm not sure if that's 100% due to him being a worse rebounder, or there are other factors. Yao never rebounded as much as he should have, but he was awesome at boxing out his man, for example. But in either case you're correct here.

    As I've noted, if Blake develops a shooting touch/game, then he clearly becomes a dominant force. He doesn't currently have that. The best all around metric we have, which of course is flawed, is PER. As of today, LA's 23 PER is higher than Blake's.

    Again, arguing that they should be ranked 1. Love, 2. Blake, 3. Aldridge doesn't bother me (I'm throwing out all other PFs for now). But I think the general public as a whole would never place Aldridge so high, whilst all would view Blake as a top PF.
     
  18. Qball

    Qball Contributing Member

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    Why the hell are people bringing in Aldridge or Nowitzki or Chuck Hayes into the discussion. Did yall not read the article....or the friggin title of the post at least?
     
  19. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    ^ really? you can't understand why a thread about Blake and Love would end up discussing other good power forwards?
     
  20. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    I would take Aldridge over the other two because he commands a double team. Love and Griffin do not. There is reason why Portland stays in the playoffs despite losing one of the most talented guards in the NBA.
     
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