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Olympics - China using underage girls?

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by SageHare6, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. SageHare6

    SageHare6 Member

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    Do you guys buy this?

    Looking super young is one thing, but cheating? WHOA!!!!


    http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news?slug=ap-gym-karolyi-ages&prov=ap&type=lgns

    Bela Karolyi incensed about underage rules
    By BARRY WILNER, AP Sports Writer
    15 hours, 15 minutes ago

    Buzz Up Print
    BEIJING (AP)—Bela Karolyi seethed as he watched the Chinese women compete Sunday.

    Not because of how good they were in qualifications, finishing 1.475 points ahead of the American team that often trains at his Texas ranch. What bothered the most famous man in gymnastics was “China’s arrogance” for using girls he wasn’t even sure were teenagers yet.

    “They are using half-people,” Karolyi said. “One of the biggest frustrations is, what arrogance. These people think we are stupid.

    “We are in the business of gymnastics and we know what a kid of 14 or 15 or 16 looks like. You don’t have to be a gymnastics coach to know what they look like at 16.”

    Karolyi, working the games for NBC, believes the international federation’s rules that gymnasts must turn at least 16 during the Olympic year are flawed. Karolyi’s complaints are nothing new. But when they come moments after the Chinese have competed at the Olympics, well, they come across more loudly than ever.

    “What kind of slap in the face is this?” he asked. “They are 12, 14 years old, max. And they line them up for the world … and having the government back them.

    “Since they forced an age limit, it has gotten worse and worse. The FIG is running away from the age problem. They set an age limit and now they can’t control it.”

    International Gymnastics Federation (FIG) officials have accepted the passports of the Chinese women, which indicate all are old enough to compete. Karolyi is originally from Romania, and he says falsifying documents is a common practice in countries such as Romania, Russia and other former Soviet bloc nations.

    The solution, he said, is to not have any age limit. He believes if a gymnast is good enough to earn a spot at the Olympics or world championships, that athlete deserves to go. He said some juniors today are just as proficient as the age-eligble competitors. Nastia Liukin, for example, would certainly have made the squad for the Athens Games four years ago had she not been 14.

    Karolyi’s wife, Martha, the national coordinator for the U.S. women’s team, agrees that if there are any questions about age, just eliminate the restrictions being broken.

    “If it’s true,” she said of any nation using underage gymnasts, “the only situation is to lift up the age limit. It would be an even playing field for everyone.”

    Bela Karolyi praised the Chinese for their skills on the various apparatus, and for their competitiveness. His issue is not with the athletes, of course, but with those who would use them as pawns in the chase for medals.

    Very young pawns.

    “They do good gymnastics and are a good service for the sport,” he said of the Chinese. “They have the ultimate effective training program. That’s why I am more upset that they are cheating. They don’t need cheating. They would be just as good a lineup of eligible athletes.”

    theSAGE?
     
  2. yuantian

    yuantian Contributing Member

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    don't be jealous that Chinese people look young.

    i am almost 28, people think i am still in college.
    when i was in graduate school, some undergraduate freshmen thought i was an incoming freshmen too. until i told him i am in graduate school. :D those girls look about right. there is one that's questionable from her looks, but you can't really guess someone's age.

    they just complain when they can't even beat little girls.
     
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Yes China is cheating, they forged the passports to make 2 or 3 of their girls appear older.

    Oh well...big shock !!

    DD
     
    #3 DaDakota, Aug 10, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2008
  4. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    If there is an age limit, then I think it's stupid. Mainly because yes, countries like China will never bother to adhere to it. As for the ages of those girls... yeah, I watched a bit of the gymnastics, and I sure as hell don't think many of them are 16.
     
  5. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    I'd be shocked if a couple of those girls were even twelve.
     
  6. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    I wouldn't go that far. Chinese people in general are smaller in stature than other races. And gymnastics do require some mental acumen that comes with age. And being a country with a billion people and a central government which pours tons of money into this, I think it's quite easy for them to find enough naturally short girls.
     
  7. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    They're not 16 years old -- not even close.
     
  8. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    As women age their relative strength goes down, so a 10-11 year old girl might have more relative strength than a 20 year old girl so it isn't really fair.
     
  9. real_egal

    real_egal Contributing Member

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    When it comes to accusation of China, you never need any fact/proof/evidence, a simple "I believe" is more than enough.

    Yeah that guy was praising Chinese gymnastics to say that they were so good that they don't need to cheat. LOL. He's sure they were cheating, without any proof. It's NBC, and the land of freedom, since that guy has a US passport now, whatever accusation he threw at China is welcome.

    There are 2 out of 4 US team members are at 16, and there are so many more gymnasists from other countries are at 16. Perfectly at 16. They were all perfectly timed when they started training to aim for this 2008 Olympics. But if a Chinese is 16 and doing well? NOOOOOOOOOOO, she must be cheating. What's this all about? Doesn't Canada have a 14 year old boy diving genius boy? It's ok, he's not from a commie country, so he's a little hero. Didn't a 15 year old Russian girl just stepped on the floor? Russia is no longer a commie country, so it's ok.

    But Chinese? If they are doing anything well, they must be cheating.

    Those 16 year old girls from democratic countries, when they competed in World Cup or any other tournaments last year or 2 years ago, they were 16 too.

    Being a sore loser is somewhat understandable, but trying so hard with all kinds of excuses and accusation, EVEN before the final take place? That guy really makes his new motherland proud, and of course he made Bob Costas happy.
     
    #9 real_egal, Aug 10, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2008
  10. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    I never said they were (refer to my first post in this thread). It's just that as yuantian pointed out, Americans(and likely other western countries) don't have a good idea regarding the age of Chinese people.

    As I said, in a land with a billion people, with a race that is typically smaller in stature compared to other races, I don't feel the Chinese government needs to resort to using 11 or 12 year olds.

    Would they if it's necessary? I'm sure. But I just don't think it's necessary.
     
  11. yuantian

    yuantian Contributing Member

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    you sure are an expert in how women age. :D

    so why are there more 10-11 girls in weight lifting? if you say they have more strength?
     
  12. Cannonball

    Cannonball Contributing Member

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    He said RELATIVE WEIGHT. I'm a relatively big guy and even though I'm stronger than someone half my size, they might be able to do more pushups than me because they'd be pushing less weight. Same principle. They weigh less and consequently don't have to be as strong as someone older and more developed in order to accomplish their feats.
     
  13. mazyar

    mazyar Member

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    I don't know. Watching them perform right now, I don't think they're as old as they're listed. Even the 20 year old girl looks like she could be like 17. The shortest one looks to be like 13.
     
  14. yuantian

    yuantian Contributing Member

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    if they have less weight, that means they have less muscle too. it's all relative. size different isn't that big between a 14, 16 year old girls. just because Asian girls are smaller, doesn't mean they are that much younger. it's not their fault that they don't eat cheese or fried chicken injected with hormones.
     
  15. yuantian

    yuantian Contributing Member

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    if that girl is 17, why do they even bother list her as 20 year old? they picked these less developed girls on purpose because they've got advantage.
     
  16. Hayesfan

    Hayesfan Contributing Member

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    Three of those Chinese girls looked as though they hadn't hit puberty yet. Honestly, they were very talented and I am glad they are getting a chance to compete, but I agree with the Karolyi's. Just take away the age limits if you can't verify they are actually being followed.

    Gymnastics is a young persons sport. There is no way a persons body could take the beating that they take for 15 to 20 years and not have wear and tear. It's harming the girls more than the sport.

    For male gymnasts I can see a difference because most of their events are strength based rather than tumbling based. The males only have the floor that is really tumbling, the vault is, but not to the same extent.

    I understand looking young for your age, but there are some developments in a females body that you can definitely see between the ages of 12 and 15. Even on girls that compete in gymnastics and other sports.
     
  17. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Contributing Member

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    What does the 14 year old diver have to do with anything? Rules are rules. There's an age limit for the Gymnastics. I don't know what it is for diving but the boys age is known so obviously he's not breaking any rules.

    What are acusing those "16 year old girls from democratic" countries of doing?

    All I know is that watching the Chinese girls warmup, before even seeing them compete, and even before knowing about the Bela thing, I just said to myself that at least 2 of those girls looked like they were 12 or 13.
     
  18. mazyar

    mazyar Member

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    I know. Because the 20 year old in this Olympic, also competed in the last Olympic. They said that on tv. So it makes sense, she was probebly under 16 when she competed in Athens, so now they have to list here at 20 four years later. Maybe...
     
  19. Bullard4Life

    Bullard4Life Member

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    "That guy" is Béla Károlyi. He's coached individual gold medal winners like Nadia Comaneci and Marie Lou Retton as well as the Romanian and US teams. He's been a citizen of the Unite States so your passport knock, like most of your post, is pretty ignorant.

    Read the original story. The 16 year old age limit is a specific regulation for gymnastics: "the international federation’s rules that gymnasts must turn at least 16 during the Olympic year." The US has abided by the rule, China most likely hasn't.

    The issue is that there's plenty of references to the girl's being younger than 16, but when it became clear that they would be competing in the Olympics, all of a sudden the government produced passports saying they were 16.
    http://www.canadaeast.com/sports/article/367383

    Your assertions look a lot more biased and ignorant than Károlyi's.
     
  20. yuantian

    yuantian Contributing Member

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    a lot of those European girls don't look like they are 16 either. Johnson looks like she is 15 too.
     

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