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Are Americans Capable of Forgiveness without Vengence?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Rocket River, Sep 30, 2011.

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  1. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Looking at the assassination/death of Anwar al-Awlaki thread got me to wondering.


    Is peace . . without their total submission and destruction . . .possible?
    Are we even open to the possibility?
    Are Americans capable of forgiveness in the name of peace?

    If Al queada came to the table and said . .. we done
    we just want peace . . . would America Demand a Pound of flesh?

    If they were to give it . . but demand that America turn over various soldiers that committed what they termed an 'atrocity' [whether we believe it or not] . . . would we . . in the name of Peace?

    Is peace only to be had . . with one sided victory?


    Rocket River
     
  2. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    i just killed your mom, but now i'm cool, are we good?
     
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  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    The Southern states seem to be doing ok after the civil war.

    I am not sure turning the other cheek works all that well with a bully.

    The difference today is that now one person can wreak so much more havoc than before, due to technology and mobility of people.

    It makes the assholes be able to ruin a lot more people's lives.

    DD
     
  4. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Does that mean I have to kill you mom, dad, son and cousins too?
    Americans in specific, people in general, seems to be going for not an eye for an eye
    but an escalation .
    If we each killed each other's mom . .that is not enough
    We have to kill you mom and cut off your arm and cripple your legs
    THEN .. WE WILL COME TO THE PEACE TABLE and accept your surrender

    Some would point to Sherman's March as the pound of flesh
    and threat of overall destruction

    The south did submit as well [long time to go back to find an example.]

    Rocket River
     
  5. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Well RR I am not sure your question is answerable.

    If we are at war, then we are fighting back which you could take to mean vengence.....

    So, maybe you should clarify your point, has there ever been a time when the USA was attacked and did not strike back?

    No, and I think most countries that turned the other cheek are not countries anymore.

    Unless your name is France and you have the USA and UK to bail you out over and over again.

    DD
     
  6. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    What terms of Peace would you demand from Al Queada?
    What would they need to do . .to end this WAR ON TERRORISM?

    Rocket River
     
  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Their leadership would have to give up on attacks on innocent civilians and denounce their previous position.

    It happens all the time where an organization morphs into a political party.

    DD
     
  8. MoonDogg

    MoonDogg Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    There are plenty of examples internationally where enemies had to make nice and forgive large-scale murder. Ireland achieving peace after the IRA (with a former IRA commander currently a candidate for the presidency). Germans and French burying the hatchet after WWII. Rwanda recovering from the attempted genocide (that one probably isn't done with yet).

    But (white) Americans haven't had to forgive and forget. American minorities have had to, the South has had to, but not the whole country. I don't see any reason why the US would stop short of total victory. The terrorists haven't done enough damage to make us desperate for peace; nor would we suffer if they were annihilated. So, I don't see us negotiating or drawing back.
     
  10. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Have you seen our government's expenditures?

    DD
     
  11. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Contributing Member

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    God dammit, I just posted this in the weird relationship thread and I hadn't even seen this post.

    That is weird....
     
  12. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    This is a better explaination of what I was attempting to say
    Thanks.

    Rocket River
     
  13. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Do Japan and Germany count? After we bombed them to smithereens I'd wonder if we took better care of them then any of our non-white first or third world allies in the Cold War.
     
  14. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    America is a very forgiving country by nature. After the towers went down though, we don't suffer terrorists.
     
  15. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    could this happen . . WITHOUT the bombing to smithereens?

    Rocket River
     
  16. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    America has suffered jack squat compared to the rest of the world in a general sense. What are the two most egregious offense to our nation anyway in recent memory? Pearl Harbor and 9/11. Put this up against any other country in the past 100 years and it'll seem like we haven't even suffered.

    It's much easier to be "very forgiving" when you're the one doing the mass destruction rather than receiving it.
     
  17. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    USS Liberty, would that count?
     
  18. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    ...........................................really? I mean, heck, I think Japan's turned out pretty well after the war.

    And look, turning the other cheek is a nice sentiment by some Jewish magician, but it's simply ridiculous and has no place in foreign policy, of all places. It's an illusion borne by those who can't even imagine that their money or security could possibly be taken away from them.
     
  19. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Two Nukes? I guess that is pretty well .. in some universe

    interesting perspective.
    In your mind . . . their can be no peace. . until you have had you vengence. Period.
    If someone punches you in the eye . . .you cannot let it go until you have smacked him around a bit?

    Rocket River
     
  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Its an interesting question. I think in general the US has shown itself to be magnanimous in victory such as WWII but not so much in defeat. It took decades to normalize relations with Vietnam but even so our relations with Vietnam are relatively decent also consider that former Vietnam vets like McCain were ones who spearheaded normalizing relations.

    At the same time though our culture favors vengeance from everything from revenge driven movies to the death penalty. Just to add that vengeance is a major factor in regard to military policy such as in the bombing of Libya after the night club bombings in the 1980's and GW Bush saying that we were invading Iraq because they tried to kill his daddy. Of course that is also tempered by other political and practical realities. For example we didn't bomb the crap out of Somalia after Blackhawk Down, Lebanon after the Beirut Barracks, or Iran after the Hostage Crisis.
     

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