1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

The perils of restricted free agency

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Verbatim, Jul 27, 2014.

  1. Verbatim

    Verbatim Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2001
    Messages:
    697
    Likes Received:
    24
    Back in the day. A RFA is a good thing for the team.

    Now it is not so good. Used to be market dictates a reasonable contract.

    Don't know when it all got started but those 2 contracts DM did to steal Asik and Lin were in fact way over paying and sometimes it works (Asik for a good pick) and sometimes it burns (Lin cost 2 picks). Timing has a factor I know but still.

    Now very good to borderline stars are getting max/near max contracts as RFA because it needs to be crazy for other team to not match and in Dallas case, insure that if matched it would cripple the other team.

    DM gambled not for 3rd star but a stable markets and he lost because the team up north decided to mess with the Rockets much like Rockets messed with the Knicks.

    Hindsight is 20/20 so cannot predict the future.

    Wonder what Chandler will turn out to be. His contract is useless as trade asset. That is for sure. Cuban is saying now they have no plans to trade him. That's because he is not tradable with that contract plus if they bet right and he blows up they will need to do this all over again in 2 years
     
  2. Aleron

    Aleron Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    11,685
    Likes Received:
    1,113
    Hayward and Parsons were outliers (take Lance, he's probably slightly better than Parsons at everything including craziness), Bledsoe was the best rfa and he's getting boned by it. You always run the risk in rfa of being that outlier, but given that it was an extremely good wing market for a given year, even in hindsight it was the best decision (unless we consider the untenable, keep him then trade him because you know he's leaving psychic foresight).
     
  3. smoothie

    smoothie Jabari Jungle

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2001
    Messages:
    20,716
    Likes Received:
    6,945
    lots of teams with cap space meant a lot of teams had a lot of money to spend this year.

    have a RFA in a year where only a few teams have cap space and you will find bargains.
     
  4. Horry33

    Horry33 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    4,323
    Likes Received:
    326
    Trading Jeremy lin cost Rockets TWO picks?
     
  5. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,496
    Likes Received:
    56,074
    You're over thinking things if you believe RFA is more periless than UFA.

    And I don't think anyone believes Asik was overpaid. $8m/yr for a defensive 7'er center grabbing second most rebounds in the league is below market, imo

    btw: mostly this is becoming more common because the draft is getting deeper. RFA is really only an issue with 2nd rounders and undrafted players. So, that's why it seems to be a recently development where RFAs are getting contracts above MLE.
     
  6. 1234567

    1234567 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2013
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    166
    Hindsight is always right. Asik was a big gamble on a backup center that paid off. Lin was gamble on Linsanity and it bombed.

    CP will either be like Asik or not in terms of value and I am betting DM is right and Cuban is wrong.

    As for RFA over UFA. There is that matching aspect but there is always a chance you get poison pilled and will be force to look stupid for letting "talent" walk for nothing. That is how it looks like when you don't match. Money and Cap hit is foreign language for average fan and media.

    And for actual max players only LBJ left his team to go home this year. Others stayed for $$$
     
  7. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,496
    Likes Received:
    56,074

    Welcome to cfans 1234567

    We lost Dragic for nothing, too, as a UFA when we could have made him a RFA. There are far more examples of teams making below value trades on players who will soon become UFAs, for fear they lose them entirely. James Harden comes to mind. And Howard to Lakers. Teams fear UFA more than RFA.

    The so-called poison pill is better than just flat out not being able to convince a UFA to stay, like Lebron.

    As an aside, pet peeve of mine, Larry Coon does not use the term poison pill in this fashion like the media does. Poison Pill is not the Arenas Rule. Asik/Lin were signed using the Arenas Rule, the final yr Cap balloon to the Knicks is all part of the Arenas Rule.

    At least with RFA, you have First Right of Refusal. You don't have that with UFA...and that's why Morey did not pick up Parsons' Teams Option, and ironically, also why Morey was criticized for taking the Team Option on Dragic vs going the Parsons/RFA route.
     
    #7 heypartner, Jul 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
  8. hooroo

    hooroo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,898
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    There are no SFs of Harward or Parsons' calibre available through free agency until 2016. Like Morey has said C and SF are the most overpaid positions because of the lack of elite depth.
     
  9. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    35,048
    Likes Received:
    23,934
    RFA is of course better than UFA from the team's POV. Teams can always overpay to pry a player away, whether it's UFA or RFA. But in RFA, at least you have the option to match. in UFA, when a player doesn't want to stay, there's no way you can keep him.

    Again, Morey declined Parsons' team option not because (at least mostly not because) he is kind to Parsons, letting him get paid a year earlier. Both Morey and Parsons knew it.
     
  10. shastarocket

    shastarocket Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2006
    Messages:
    13,773
    Likes Received:
    1,082
    The other pick was an ultra-restricted 2nd rounder from the Clips. Very unlikely to ever amount to anything
     
  11. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    61,246
    Likes Received:
    28,751
    At this point .. .what are Bledsoe's options
    If he decides not to sign . . .does he sit out a year
    or . .. is he held indefinitely to the Suns

    Rocket River
     
  12. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,496
    Likes Received:
    56,074
    He can sign the qualifying offer (which is a one-yr contract) and play for one yr, then he becomes a UFA.

    If he doesn't sign any contract, PHO still maintains RFA rights over him.
     
  13. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    43,147
    Likes Received:
    25,187
    It wasn't the fact that Lin was overpaid that made the contract hard to deal. It was the poison pill that backloaded the last year for 15 million that other teams didn't like.

    If it was 8.5 million, I don't think it would've taken as long to deal him.
     
  14. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,496
    Likes Received:
    56,074
    The "poison pill" was only an issue for the Knicks. The rockets cap it was $8m and so is the Lakers. No?

    Btw. That is only an issue for a rare set of RFAs. That is only an issue with Early Bird players on treams over the cap, strapped by the MLE limit That is not the case with Parson and Bledsoe. They are Full Birds
     
    #14 heypartner, Jul 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
  15. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    43,147
    Likes Received:
    25,187
    Sure....Jermy Lin gun get paid 15 million this year and it aint gun be from Les.
     
  16. Aleron

    Aleron Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    11,685
    Likes Received:
    1,113
    Morey is a lightning rod, Toronto did the same thing with Landry Fields but not a peep was heard.
     
  17. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,496
    Likes Received:
    56,074
    right. I agree. I was just saying his cap hit is $8m. I was saying the cap-hit poison pill only affected the Knicks, not the Rockets or any other team, later in trade.

    So in context of "The perils of RFA" in the OP, the poison pill only affects the team with RFA rights, and ONLY if they don't have Full Bird (which Parsons, Bledsoe have), and the current team can only pay Early Bird MLE, and don't have cap space to match, and *AND* the second yr player is good enough to warrant more than the MLE.

    In the context of this thread, it is very rare an RFA will involve a poison pill.
     
  18. jerrios

    jerrios Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    10
    I find it interesting that the term "poison pill contract" is so commonly used for Lin and Asik's contracts, when I don't think they really are.

    For example, there were a couple of contracts in the NFL that for example, if player X didn't play X number of games in this state, then his contract would increase by X amount.

    When the contract terms for the Rockets is the same as the Bulls/Knicks in terms of counting against the cap and actual spend, I don't think there's an actual poison pill in there.
     
  19. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,496
    Likes Received:
    56,074
    Larry Coon does not use the "Poison Pill" term to refer to Lin and Asik, only the media does. The "Poison Pill" detailed by Coon that started with the new CBA has nothing to do with Lin and Asik.

    That said, sure it's a poison pill. It's just that the use of this popular definition was always in the CBA dating back the Arenas Rule. This is nothing new. The "poison pill" as used to describe Lin and Asik is the Arenas Rule.

    But make no mistake, the Bulls and Knicks had a completely different cap hit than the Rockets on Lin and Asik. That is the Arenas Rule. Don't cite any NFL rule. The Knicks and Bulls would be facing $15m cap hits this year on Lin and Asik had they matched.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now