Waller County: 'Illegal' Lane Change leads to Death

Law enforcement contacts happen incrementally. At the time of the initial approach, he was going to give her a warning. When talking to her, she appears to be reacting differently than he would expect (upset/irritated), so he asks her politely why she is upset/irritated, and she goes off on a tirade, further increasing his suspicion, but not providing enough information that he would at that point be able to continue with a DUI investigation or search the vehicle. He asks if she is done, and she blows up again. Then he calmly asks her to put out her cigarette and again she responds in an unusual manner. He asks her to get out of the car (which is a lawful order, at this point he has not touched her, yelled at her, threatened her, or pulled a weapon) and she refuses. That is when she can be placed under arrest. Each step along the way she is increasing his suspicion of her, until finally she commits a crime and he can take further action. After failing to get her out of the vehicle with words or physical force, he points his taser at her and informs her that she needs to exit or he will use the taser to get her out. At that point she complies. Then he proceeds to arrest her, and she is resisting the whole time.

I think it is ridiculous to think it is beyond the pale for a law enforcement officer to ask someone why they are irritated, to ask if they are done after they rant at him, and to ask that that they put out a cigarette. None of those actions by the cop are wrong. At each stage she is acting odd, so he asks her to step out of the vehicle. Having someone acting weird get out of the vehicle seems perfectly reasonable to me. Once she refuses, the encounter changes from a traffic stop to an arrest. Again we see incremental changes. He asks her to get out of the vehicle again. He gives her a verbal warning of physical force. He applies physical force, which she resists. He gives her a verbal warning that he will use his taser, and she complies. He then arrests her outside the vehicle and she resists again. At each point it is Bland's behavior that results in the next incremental change. It is not that he threatens to tase her for mouthing off.

I would say he doesn't get at all angry until she fights him on getting out of the car. He seems quite calm before that.

Those are potential consequences on the extreme end for extreme behavior. It is like the song says, you get what you give. Police officers are not robots, they are people that have to go through a six month academy (approximately, varies by jurisdiction). The more resistance you show them, the more they are going to push back, which is not entirely a bad thing, as being completely passive to uncooperative suspects is a good way for a cop to get killed.

 

Judging by the comments after this, I guess that IS asking too much in the opinion of some.

 

I don't really feel like making a thread for it, but I think a much more interesting case is that of Samuel Dubose in Ohio. From what I can tell, the unarmed man was shot during a traffic stop as he threw the car into gear and tried to flee. The officer was indicted today and since there is actual substance to that case, it's probably the one we should be discussing.

 

Well, the officer should know why a person is irritated. And if he asks the question, he shouldn't be upset when she answers it, which is what she did. He asked her a question and she answered it. But as was said "Are you finished?" Isn't a way to end something, it's a way to escalate it. It is not professional for the officer to escalate the situation that he created by asking the question in the first place and getting an answer to it.

That is strange, and none of his business if she's smoking in her car.

It is wrong since what he was doing wasn't ending a situation that could he as a professional law enforcement officer could have ended, but instead he kept escalating it. She wasn't really acting odd, just irritated, and he kept pushing her buttons and fishing for ways to go after her.

 

I'm really surprised no one is taking gender under consideration... It's said that police domestic violence is nearly double the average rate. The police force has a much bigger problem with domestic violence (and rape) than the NFL. Which could lead one to believe there are cops out there who's interactions with men may be different than with women (like not accepting back talk from a woman even if they are being a dick).

You're a man who didn't break the law and you knew it. And you probably displayed that the cop didn't want to deal with you in court in a calm none-ego bruising manner.

Has the body cam footage been released yet...? Discussions would be better with the footage.

 

It was just released today....and it doesn't look good. The guy started his car and tried to drive off and the cop shot him in the head. Now, he'll obviously try a self-defense argument, but it'll be an uphill battle because while the moving car threw him to the ground, it didn't appear to drag him like the officer claimed.

 

I just watched it... Totally different than what the officer claimed. But I'm not sure this falls into the category of a officer possibly escalating a situation.

These cops entered a woman's home in Arizona and acted like dicks _ https://youtu.be/iHylZV_PXFU... It's like the cop was trying to get her completely naked.

This is why I say gender should be taken into consideration with this thread topic.

 

I can't imagine many scenarios where you wouldn't let someone grab some clothes to put on before cuffing them. That's BS IMO.

 

Well considering the fact the cops were in her home illegally he had no right to cuff her in the 1st place and she had every right to have a attitude towards the cop. He even lectured her for 20 minutes about her attitude... "Don't take the attitude with cops because we don't play"...

That statement the Arizona cop made about "attitudes" is on par with the cop pertaining to this thread topic.

 

Well having an "attitude" with a cop is a pretty awful idea....but that's not really the relevant part of either this case or the Sandra Bland case.

I kind of wish I could find more information out about the naked Arizona woman case because it really seems weird.

 

I agree... Especially when the police can use the law to deal with someone's attitude...

Here's another women who got her face smashed because of her attitude _ https://youtu.be/rRrMh851LzU... Notice how they say "she failed the attitude test."

Bland failed the attitude test.

 

This woman refused to let her window down and look what happened _ https://youtu.be/2owN7V3RNq4...

She failed the attitude test.

 

Well, she failed the attitude test, then she broke the law. That part is pretty important too.

People who aren't in control of their actions and emotions often suffer because of it. You fail the attitude test at work, you could get fired, you fail that test with a cop, you could get put under further scrutiny, you fail that test with a judge, you go to jail, you fail that test with your significant other, you end up single.

Life sucks for people who can't control themselves.

 

Well, not just that, she also failed to comply with a lawful order to step out of her car....that part is pretty important.

 

Except for if you are a cop that is. You get to bully people whenever you please.

Now, I just played a video of a man who didn't roll down his window and didn't get out of his car and nothing happened to him. This woman did the same thing, she didn't roll down the window and wouldn't get out of the car.

As said before, empathy goes a long way. A cop can give a "Lawful" order just because he wants to. Doesn't mean he should do it.

 

The cop in the video with the man could have ordered him out of the vehicle, but he didn't. Sometimes people who like to play kid games with cops get away with it, sometimes they don't. Just because one guy got away with it doesn't mean everyone should.

 

How would you even know what happens to other minorities when they don't behave perfectly during traffic stops? It's not like they make national news

 

The officer's motivation became clear when he asked "are you done?" thinking he was pretty cool being a smartass to a detained citizen and Ms. Bland reminded him that he asked her what was wrong so she told him. She is now dead from events that transpired because she literally replied to a direct question from a police officer.

The cop didn't like having the tables turned on his attempt to belittle Ms. Bland so he immediately went on the offensive in an effort to regain his lost masculinity. I don't think he originally meant for it to go so far that he would end up arresting her but he is paid to act like a professional and not to belittle folks or escalate situations when someone is agitated by his behavior. He failed and ultimately a woman is dead because of it. To say otherwise is simply lying.

 

I honestly haven't paid attention to this. Can I get a tl;dr?