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Boogie Cousins is the most overrated "star" in the league... Not even top 15.

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Air Canada, Jul 29, 2016.

  1. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    Bron
    SnakeD
    Wardell
    Harden
    Cp3
    AD
    Russ
    Griffin
    Kawhi
    PG
    Dame
    LMA
    Lowry
    Butler
    Wall
    Klay
    Gasol(healthy)

    And that's more than 15..

    Heck... I probably can name a few more.

    Why?

    -Headcase
    -Horrible leader
    -Poor shot selection
    -Way too turnover prone for a big
    -Low efficiency at the rim for a big
    -Mediocre defender @ a position where defense is a premium

    Not very impactful production:
    Hasn't won more than 30 games in his career.

    He's not really efficient anywhere on the court...
    He's either average or well below average.

    [​IMG]

    He's OVERRATED AF :p
     
    DudeWah likes this.
  2. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    He seems to have the Attitude of . . . .. .
    [​IMG]

    and the KINGS CURSE of . . . . .
    [​IMG]

    Rocket River
     
  3. basketballholic

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    Rubio Harden Ross Cousins Anderson


    I hope we get him.
     
  4. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    Ross? Lol

    I wouldn't be against getting Boogie, but oh my God.... This Rubio crap has to stop.. I understand you really love watching Rubio... You love his creative passes so much and you'd love to see him play for your team cuz he's one of your favorite players.

    So you say anything to justify the Rockets getting him and ignore the flaws in his game that could be detrimental to the team. :rolleyes:

    Would I mind Rubio on the team? Only if he could be had on a bargain contract and if he wasn't starting, but just as an additional playmaker off the bench we could play when needed and then bench when needed at key or pivotal moments.... But that's just not feasible. So no.

    You will not succeed or win at a high level with a player like that starting @PG or getting starters minutes in 2016 and going forward.
     
  5. BigShasta

    BigShasta Contributing Member

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    I mean, I know Rubio is one of Hollics fav player, but he does have sources that would offer some justifications as to why he mentions him often.

    In this system, you need a player like Rubio.
     
  6. ksny15

    ksny15 Member

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    You also need a guy who can make a shot which Rubio can't do. It's all nice and dandy that he can run an offense and is a brilliant passer but he's a HORRIBLE shooter and finisher. That's a huge no no in an MDA offense especially next to James. Rubio is a terrible with with Harden
     
  7. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    He has sources? Hahaha

    Any of those sources about Rubio NOT being the worst modern NBA shooter and finisher in history? Cuz that's exactly what you don't need. No PG like Ricky has ever led a team to a championship in NBA history.
     
  8. emcitymisfit

    emcitymisfit Member

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    Kidd got close.
     
  9. Nook

    Nook Member

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    No you don't.
     
  10. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    yep JKidd..Rondo...Ron Harper...Avery Johnson..probably more..

    I really wouldn't mind Rubio considering we have guys like Harden, Gordon and Ryno to spot up for him. Beverly is our current starter and he doesn't have much NBA level skill. He's just a hustle/energy player that plays pesky/annoying defense rather than true lock down D with high defensive IQ. At least Rubio can handle the ball unlike Beverly, i think that'd be the very 1st must have skill in your point guard, followed by passing which Beverly also can't do.
     
  11. Milos

    Milos Member

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    I get that he's FAR from perfect ...
    But he is the 1 legit well-rounded C in the league and basically unchallenged as the king of the position w his unrivaled total skillset

    We are talking about a 2nd-team ALL NBA selection (isn't that Top 10 by default?)
    A true post player that avg 26 PPG + 11 RPG
    Name another C in basketball that could even approach that currently?
    I feel strongly KAT will supplant Boogie at the top sooner than later, but not yet, and he's the ONLY current starting C that could


    Jordan Drummond Whiteside Howard Golbert Noah are all completely 1-dimensional and not in the same universe offensively

    Horford Jefferson BLopez Vucevic Valenciunis Okafor are all nice enough OFF players, but only Horford is even avg on DEF from that group


    Marc Gasol is a close 2nd, and if it was my money, I'd be much happier to lock in w him than Boogie on a long Max deal
    That's all the mental thing though ...

    On the court Gasol is a much better and more willing passer, but that's his only edge on Cousins skill-wise
    Neither are overly athletic or major rim protectors while both handle the ball very well
    But Boogie is a better rebounder, post scorer, outside shooter, and he's much stronger

    Most importantly, he's proven capable as the go-to scorer his team can ride all night, every night
    Gasol has never proven that, despite playing on a MUCH better team with way more help


    Found a recent article on CBS with a great reminder of how perception of a career 'loser' can change drastically simply by a move to a new team:
    http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/demarcus-cousins-says-the-all-nba-voting-process-is-a-joke/

    "Cousins was a monster against opponents on the court. He averaged 26.9 points (a career-high), 11.5 rebounds, and 3.3 assists.
    He was just the second player since 2003 to put up 26-11-3 for a season with the other being Kevin Love in 2013-14. Despite his team winning just 40 games in 2013-14, Love's individual play got him placed on the All-NBA Second Team.
    Cousins was awarded the same honor this season"

    MIN Love from 2 years ago is exactly where SAC Cousins is now
    Tons of gaudy stats and IND awards that feel empty and meaningless bc they don't translate to wins for the team
    But that doesn't mean all that production CAN'T help a team win big just because it hasn't yet

    Suddenly Love gets paired up with a Top 5 player and now he's being praised as the ultimate teammate who sacrificed himself to win the championship
    Who would have pegged Love, based only on his MIN days, as a guy to willingly trade his stats/shots/touches for wins?

    CLE also had Kyrie, so I'm not saying adding Cousins makes any new team an instant contender as Love did for the Cavs
    I just think it's criminal to drop him outside the Top 10, and while I wouldn't rate him Top 5 myself, a case can certainly be made that there are not 5 other players in the world right now capable of impacting a game the way Boogie does
     
  12. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    Solid comparison TBH
     
  13. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    Rubio is not like Kidd.... Kidd wasn't a great perimeter shooter early in his careeer, but he was still much better at it than Rubio and he was a capable scorer.. elite driver and could definitely finish....

    Wrong again on all of them.... All those dudes could finish and Rondo was an elite driver and very good finisher even though he wasn't a good 3pt shooter... Also better in every aspect except FT shooting... And even at that Rondo was in a minor role the year they won it in 08.

    Rubio is the worst finisher/shooter in modern NBA history.

    Rubio is not the answer.... He brings a new set of problems.

    He allows teams to load up or key in on Harden more just by being on the floor while at the same time being a liability. Also since Rubio needs the ball to be effective offensively AT ALL... he's going to limit Harden's elite driving and attacking in the paint.
     
    Houstunna likes this.
  14. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    He has a lot of skills sure, but they're not great or necessarily efficient. Keep in mind he's always been sub 50% FG% as a big... If he's gonna shoot 20 FGA....

    He needs to have much better shot selection. If you watch him, then you know he loves shooting. And it seems this past season he took the green light to shoot from down town. Why? One of the biggest bigs in the NBA, should be abusing teams in the paint. Stupid. Cut out the 3pters entirely and take less long jumpers.

    He has range, but his shot inaccurate... Has more trust in it than he should.

    Average 3pt shooter AT best.
    Solid FT shooter for a big.
    Good post moves.... Not a quality finisher below the hoop in the low post area and plays well below the rim on the interior.

    Good rebounder yeah, but he's not the exception there.

    It actually hurts that he settles for those 3s... Bails out the defense.. exactly what they'd want and he's not good enough from there to make it a serious threat.

    Boogie is 41% 3-9 Feet... Sub 60% at the rim.
    Unacceptable for a big man... Unacceptable for a black hole on offense. If you're dominating the ball like that you better be efficient. He scores significantly more cuz he takes 20.5 FGA.

    20.5 FGA
    45% FG as a C
    4 turnovers per game as a C...
    More turnovers than assists.

    ^ Look at the LA: league average... below his averages on the shot chart I posted.

    Marc Gasol is better :p

    What has greater impact from a big man? Especially a center... Offense or defense?

    Defense.

    I've said it many times, but I'll say it again...
    Some foolishly think perimeter defense has a similar value or is equal to perimeter offense when that couldn't be further from the truth... Yet the opposite can be said when referring to big men and interior defense.

    The center spot is probably the only position where defensive worth is comparable to offense and it very well may be more valuable there... When talking about big men.

    None of those guys are top 15 to me either so that's irrelevant to my point.. I'd definitely take some of them over him tho... Definitely Horford.

    Marc Gasol is easily a superior player...
    Boogie scores a lot on average efficiency or below that while almost leading the league in turnovers and fouls, while not leading his team to many victories. Every year of his career he had more turnovers than assists per game.

    Boogie has never really been good from mid range...
    Marc Gasol shot 43.5% from 16-23ft this year..

    Boogie shoots 25% 10-16 feet
    35% 16-23 feet for comparison....
    I'd argue Boogie's overall shooting and 3PA is a bigger detriment to his team than it is an asset. :work:

    Especially compared to Gasol.

    Impact? Let's talk about it. :cool:

    And it's not even about wins, even tho so far all he's done is put up big numbers on awful teams (won more than 28 games ONCE in his career). The Kings are a joke franchise, I get it. He's just really not that great at anything. He's super inefficient. Kevin Love was putting up numbers just as big on better teams with far more efficiency. On Love... Didn't he have a greater impact and perform more efficiently... better individually... on Minny? In a very similar... Arguably worse situation? Yes he did.
    He also dealt with many injuries of his own and to teammates as well. Boogie is a player that does a lot of things all pretty poorly very often so people overrate their productivity.

    He just finished his sixth season and his issues/flaws have essentially always been the same more or less since year 1....

    The time may come when people accept that is who he is. If a guy has been in the league for as many years as he has and he's pretty much been the same this whole time, that's usually what you're gonna get out of him. He's good, but no, he's not anywhere close to the best big man in the NBA like a lot of people like to claim and he doesn't possess the qualities to be the GUY on a good team much less a championship team.

    I mean we're not even talking about playoffs... We're talking about 30 wins man.... There's multiple "stars" that could easily lead any team to over 30 wins every year and have a bigger impact than that with a garbage souffle of teammates and Cousins doesn't have it that bad.

    I think he needs a veteran All-Star/Superstar. Not coach... Somebody that is as good or actually better than him, that can call him out on his BS.
     
  15. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
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    Lol every thread turns into a Ricky Rubio thread.

    OP, don't bother with the pro-Rubio crowd. Morey doesn't want him so he ain't coming.
     
  16. Mr Chuck Norris

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    Air Canada this board needed you.
     
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  17. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    I'm not pro Rubio, i wouldn't mind if we got him and i wouldn't care if we weren't able to get him, but i thought Morey has always coveted Rubio? IIRC, he's wanted him since long b4 he even played an NBA game and has been tied to several rumors in attempting to trade for him over the years. I think MDA wouldn't want Rubio, but i absolutely believe Morey would trade for Rubio if he is available for cheap especially. Something like Ariza+Brewer+Dekker for Rubio and a 2nd round pick or something would probably get it done for Morey, but prob not for Minny.
     
  18. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

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    put him in a good organization with solid leadership before writing him off... he was brought into a dysfunctional organization when he was just a kid - and has been there ever since...
     
  19. Pen15clubber

    Pen15clubber Member

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    Now another Rubio thread
     
  20. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    DeMarcus Cousins stats:

    26.9 ppg, 11.5 rebpg, 1.4 blockpg, 1.6 stealpg

    #14 in real-plus minus for 2015-16 (33rd in single year)

    The knock on him (besides his attitude) is he isn't as efficient as he can be. TS% and ORTG aren't what they could be with his talent and skills.

    But anyway he's still a very good defender and rebounder while providing volume scoring. Best C in the league IMO, not overrated at all.
     
    roslolian likes this.

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