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Should Ichiro's hits from Japan count with his MLB hit total?

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by steddinotayto, Jun 14, 2016.

  1. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    These kind of arguments are tricky, because the game is so different, now than it was in 1912, 1940, or even 1985. The way pitchers pitch is completely different, now. I dare say more developed and complex. In one sense, you can say a dead-ball era player is the greatest hitter of all time based on pure statistics (like Cobb, Hornsby, or Shoeless Joe). Though, remember the league is segregated, amateur development doesn't exist, and certainly no type of performance enhancing chemicals in heavy usage, yet.


    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8048897/the-age-pitcher-how-got-here-mlb


    For their eras and given competition, I think Ty Cobb and Ted Williams are the most dominant. Though, are they the best hitters ever? I can't confidently say yes. I do not believe they would fare as well against modern pitching, especially the quality of pitching over the last 25 years.


    I feel like that happens in every sport, though some athletes are so dominant and things are similar enough to remain at an elite level. While some aspects of game, can deteriorate.

    I still think MJ and Wilt would be dominant scorers in today's game, some disagree with that notion. Just as I believe Marino, Elway, and other QBs (like Moon/Kelly/Young) would be monsters in today's NFL passing game considering how most of rules benefit QBs and Receivers. A QB throwing for 4,500 yards in 1980s or 1990s NFL has got to be equivalent to 5,000+ now.
     
  2. Buck Turgidson

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    As a hitter? No. As a ballplayer? Yes. Rose was a meh to tolerable fielder and baserunner, Ichiro was all-world.

    Career OPS+

    Rose: 118
    Ichiro: 108
     
  3. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Congrats to Ichiro on 3,000!

    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ichiro is the 30th member to join the exclusive 3,000-hit club: <a href="https://t.co/5YjrJbwX0o">https://t.co/5YjrJbwX0o</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ichiro3000?src=hash">#Ichiro3000</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ThrillOfTheGame?src=hash">#ThrillOfTheGame</a><a href="https://t.co/TRiqm1iw6m">https://t.co/TRiqm1iw6m</a></p>&mdash; MLB (@MLB) <a href="https://twitter.com/MLB/status/762423254996832257">August 7, 2016</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
  4. vstexas09

    vstexas09 Contributing Member

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    Congrats Ichiro!
     
  5. YaosDirtyStache

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    One of my favorite players of all time.

    Rumor is he actually had plus power and chose to get on base and help his team instead of trying to homer.

    An incredible defenseman, a wonderful ambassador for the game, and now Mr. 3000.

    When he retires and enters the Hall, I will try to go to the ceremony and cheer him on.
     
  6. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    He has power... but like most players, if he tried to intentionally swing harder every AB, he'd have more K's, less average, and lower OBP.

    So far, Altuve seems to have bucked the trend on that... but even he starts to become a lesser hitter if he simply tries to hit HR's on every pitch.
     
  7. Hammer755

    Hammer755 Contributing Member

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    I like Ichiro, but he's not even in the conversation of the game's all-time best hitters. If he truly sacrificed power for a .350 OBP, I would have told him to aim for the fences. His plus baserunning and defense definitely add a lot to his value, but he was a high-volume singles hitter for the majority of his career, which itself is not tremendously useful.

    I think Pete Rose is one of the most overrated players in baseball history (for many of the same reasons), but Buck put it accurately - Pete was a better hitter, and Ichiro a better all-around player.
     
  8. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    Gwynn and Bonds are the best hitters of my lifetime. Even if you subtract the crazy steroid years, his numbers were sick. He lead the league in OBP in half the seasons he played.
     
  9. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    Considering that those hits did not come in MLB: no.
     
  10. MrBear1

    MrBear1 Contributing Member

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    Really good hitter but definitely not great as evident by his career OPS+ and wRC+ figures
     
  11. SunsRocketsfan

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    For the most part atlethes just keep getting better and better which is why world records keep getting broken. Each generation has better tools, training and have the advantage of studying those who came before them.

    IMO, no Ichiro's hits should not count for his MLB total. They can count for his total hits if thats what you want to track.

    But is Ichiro a better hitter? I certainly think so. One of the all time best for sure
     

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