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Miami Herald: Has Bin Laden won?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Batman Jones, Dec 27, 2005.

  1. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Contributing Member

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    http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/columnists/13487511.htm

    Posted on Mon, Dec. 26, 2005

    AFTER 9/11

    Fear destroys what bin Laden could not

    ROBERT STEINBACK

    rsteinback@MiamiHerald.com


    One wonders if Osama bin Laden didn't win after all. He ruined the America that existed on 9/11. But he had help.

    If, back in 2001, anyone had told me that four years after bin Laden's attack our president would admit that he broke U.S. law against domestic spying and ignored the Constitution -- and then expect the American people to congratulate him for it -- I would have presumed the girders of our very Republic had crumbled.

    Had anyone said our president would invade a country and kill 30,000 of its people claiming a threat that never, in fact, existed, then admit he would have invaded even if he had known there was no threat -- and expect America to be pleased by this -- I would have thought our nation's sensibilities and honor had been eviscerated.

    If I had been informed that our nation's leaders would embrace torture as a legitimate tool of warfare, hold prisoners for years without charges and operate secret prisons overseas -- and call such procedures necessary for the nation's security -- I would have laughed at the folly of protecting human rights by destroying them.

    If someone had predicted the president's staff would out a CIA agent as revenge against a critic, defy a law against domestic propaganda by bankrolling supposedly independent journalists and commentators, and ridicule a 37-year Marie Corps veteran for questioning U.S. military policy -- and that the populace would be more interested in whether Angelina is about to make Brad a daddy -- I would have called the prediction an absurd fantasy.

    That's no America I know, I would have argued. We're too strong, and we've been through too much, to be led down such a twisted path.

    What is there to say now?

    All of these things have happened. And yet a large portion of this country appears more concerned that saying ''Happy Holidays'' could be a disguised attack on Christianity.

    I evidently have a lot poorer insight regarding America's character than I once believed, because I would have expected such actions to provoke -- speaking metaphorically now -- mobs with pitchforks and torches at the White House gate. I would have expected proud defiance of anyone who would suggest that a mere terrorist threat could send this country into spasms of despair and fright so profound that we'd follow a leader who considers the law a nuisance and perfidy a privilege.

    Never would I have expected this nation -- which emerged stronger from a civil war and a civil rights movement, won two world wars, endured the Depression, recovered from a disastrous campaign in Southeast Asia and still managed to lead the world in the principles of liberty -- would cower behind anyone just for promising to ``protect us.''

    President Bush recently confirmed that he has authorized wiretaps against U.S. citizens on at least 30 occasions and said he'll continue doing it. His justification? He, as president -- or is that king? -- has a right to disregard any law, constitutional tenet or congressional mandate to protect the American people.

    Is that America's highest goal -- preventing another terrorist attack? Are there no principles of law and liberty more important than this? Who would have remembered Patrick Henry had he written, ``What's wrong with giving up a little liberty if it protects me from death?''

    Bush would have us excuse his administration's excesses in deference to the ''war on terror'' -- a war, it should be pointed out, that can never end. Terrorism is a tactic, an eventuality, not an opposition army or rogue nation. If we caught every person guilty of a terrorist act, we still wouldn't know where tomorrow's first-time terrorist will strike. Fighting terrorism is a bit like fighting infection -- even when it's beaten, you must continue the fight or it will strike again.

    Are we agreeing, then, to give the king unfettered privilege to defy the law forever? It's time for every member of Congress to weigh in: Do they believe the president is above the law, or bound by it?

    Bush stokes our fears, implying that the only alternative to doing things his extralegal way is to sit by fitfully waiting for terrorists to harm us. We are neither weak nor helpless. A proud, confident republic can hunt down its enemies without trampling legitimate human and constitutional rights.

    Ultimately, our best defense against attack -- any attack, of any sort -- is holding fast and fearlessly to the ideals upon which this nation was built. Bush clearly doesn't understand or respect that. Do we?
     
  2. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    I would have to agree with this, coming from a Christian.

    This guy might have a point .... if I thought Bush was infallable. Would any other president done better? Do you think you could have done a better job? We need to take blame ourselves. Our whole country was angry and out for blood.
     
  3. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    I am sure Bill or Bush Sr. would have done a better job than Bush Jr.
     
  4. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    I can only imagine the raw exuberance and zeal that Batman must have felt when he saw the headline on that news article (or rather when he saw it posted on one of his lefty blogs that he frequents...). Bin Laden has won! Hooray! Bush has lost and my vote for Kerry is now proven to be a smart one!

    This article is pure trash. If the liberals who purely seek to bash Bush cannot recognize that steps will need to be put in place to fight terror, then they are clueless. There is simply no doubt why the liberals are considered weak on terror - it's because they are.
     
  5. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    But the wiretapping of phone calls has been done for decades, Batman. Were the American forces guilty of destroying the Constitution when they listened in on the German correspondence during WWII? Under your guidelines, they were. I guess Hitler won.

    The Bush Administration listens in on al Qaeda phone calls and uses aggressive interrogation techniques to extract mission critical information from known terrorists, and as a result, people are declaring victory for al Qaeda? Seems like an outrageous reach. Well, because it is. The Bush Administration's moves have all been steered towards protecting our country. We must accept that changes must take place in our security techniques.

    Maybe this is just a little WISHFUL THINKING on the part of those that were staunchly against the war in the first place. Sour grapes being thrust upon us by the losers of the debate.
     
  6. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Exactly. Old Beejster really thought he had something here. I wonder if he even read beyond "Has Bin Laden won?".
     
  7. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    America is ruined? Who honestly thinks this? What a nutjob this author is.

    Your guy doesn't win at the polls and all of a sudden, America is ruined. What a load of garbage.

    The lunatic fringe liberals are unknowningly doing their party a supreme disservice by propagating this type of trash. I guarantee you that 90% of America would be disgusted by this article. Only the kook fringe that this forum is infested with could support such nonsense.
     
  8. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    bwwaaaaahahahahaa - looks like I just found out where old Beejster got this article from. Yup, it's from the DailyKos leftie weblog. I called it.
     
  9. superden

    superden Contributing Member

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    comonn, hasnt anyone watched 24?! sometimes breaking rules and torture is necessary :D
     
  10. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Contributing Member
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    The whiny-ass-titty-twins cower under their bed praying that Bush will be able keep them safe if they only throw a few more bedrock American values and civil liberties under the bus. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

    Freedom and honor aren't for sissies.
     
  11. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    weren't the japanese thrown in internment camps?

    i think america has gone thru a lot worse than some wiretaps
     
  12. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    gifford, you don't have to resort to insults when your side has lost an argument. Let's be adults, here.
     
  13. Cohen

    Cohen Contributing Member

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    It's really sad to see the bushiites struggling to keep their heads above water... can't you just see them dogpaddling furiously as they type their posts? Trying desperately to avoid the real issues about Bush's failures as a leader and defender of the Constitution? Pitiful, ad hominem attacks intended to rile and confuse the issues, but the realities become clearer every day.
     
  14. surrender

    surrender Member

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    Nothing is more hilarious/pathetic than a TJ/Texxx circlejerk in a D&D thread
     
  15. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    It's not a true circlejerk unless Basso gets involved too.
     
  16. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    and ann coulter.
     
  17. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    That was a very well written piece. Insightful, eloquent, and truthful.

    What has America become?
     
  18. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    This could very well be the tipping point on the road to Facism.

    Not now though. It takes more than one President to ruin this nation...
     
  19. Cohen

    Cohen Contributing Member

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    The system is working the way it is supposed to. One of the strengths of this great Nation is it's ability to bounce back from shots against the Constitution.
     
  20. jo mama

    jo mama Contributing Member

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    that is sooo gay!
     

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