[espn]Barkley: LeBron better than Jordan?

[Dr of Dunk]

There's a mental makeup/edge that made players like Bird, Jordan, Magic, Kobe, etc. elite players. Their will and desire to be the best and win far exceeded their athletic ability. To these guys, basketball wasn't a game - it was religion, and they wanted to be its god. It's what put them on a pedestal. I just don't see that plateau in James. Not yet anyway. James' athletic ability rivaled all those guys, but his drive to be that god in his sport seemed to have just kicked in and he'll be 28 this year. It should be interesting to see how he plays the next couple of years because more than any of those players I just mentioned, he relies on his athleticism and when that begins to wane, what becomes of his game? Does he change and adapt or does he fade?

There's no doubt in my mind he can exceed what Jordan was, but it'll take some luck and determination to do it. And a bit of help from DWade.

[ashiin]

I honestly would like to see a GOAT in the making, think about how awesome it is to tell your kids/grandkids about watching the GOAT's early expectations and stumbles and how he overcame it through determination and work ethic. Maybe they'll catch the tail end of LeBron's career the same way I did with Jordan.

[amaru]

LBJ has GOAT talent.......but the choke fest in the 2011 Finals cannot be forgotten. The GOAT doesn't shrink in any Finals series.....not even once. Last year was damn impressive....but that doesn't change the fact that the moment was too big for you at one point. The GOAT rises.....he doesn't falter when pressure is at its highest.

[amaru]

I still say the closest player I've seen to Jordan in terms of pure desire to win is #24

[Han Solo]

No. Jordan had a storybook career. It played like a movie. No one can duplicate all he did on and off the court for the game of basketball. He's almost become a myth. Watching him in slow motion was like poetry. Lebron just looks so big like a football player, it just doesn't look nice at all. Jordan was the most exciting player in the history of basketball and still is when you watch his old games and that matters imo. I feel bad for those who didn't live or weren't old enough to experience the feeling of watching him whether you hated or loved him. No one in the NBA today makes you feel that way. It's a different feeling when you're watching and thinking "this guys gonna be a top 10 player when it's all said and done" compared to "Its over, Jordan is the greatest of all time. He can retire now after his first 3peat. Oh he's gonna add 3 more in a row?" No one will catch him.

Lebron can't go from not being able to win a championship to leaving home to join Wade and Bosh and become the GOAT. It would have been as if Jordan had left to join Drexler and someone like eh..Larry Johnson and then won those 6 rings with them. His whole story would have taken a different turn and most likely guys like Magic, Kareem, Wilt etc would be ahead of him in GOAT talk.

Lebron already having lost 2 championships including one with the superfriends kind of ruins his whole legacy when people will look back imo(same thing for kobe although he shouldn't even be in a top 10 of all time discussion). Jordan: 6-0 with 6 finals MVPS without every letting a team get to game 7.

All that said, i do think he will be top 7 when it's all said and done.

[Han Solo]

Originally Posted by amaru I still say the closest player I've seen to Jordan in terms of pure desire to win is #24

Thats another thing. Jordan was a killer. Lebron is mostly a facilitator and very passive. I don't see anyone choosing a passive guy as the GOAT. Lebron has all the stats and Kobe has all the desire. Too bad Kobe only had like 3 worthy seasons statistically.

[cjtaylorpt]

Originally Posted by Icehouse What a difference a supporting cast makes. No matter who is in your GOAT convo, LeBron has only had the type of supporting cast that they had when they won titles for the last 2 seasons. I don't care who you pick or what title year you pick.

Yes, but it wasn't until he won until these statements aren't as ludicrous as before.

[Shaud]

Originally Posted by Han Solo Too bad Kobe only had like 3 worthy seasons statistically.

[rox4lyf]

This is such a prime of example why basketball or even sports logic is so antiquated and hypocritical. Something that is so fleeting like a championship which is controlled by a litany of various factors, most completely out of the control of the individual, is used as the ultimate end-all-be-all measuring tool of an athlete's success. Before LeBron won a championship people would never dare to mention him in the same breath with Jordan yet his skills were about the same as they are now. He was a HOF player before he won a championship. Yet, now that he won a championship, he gets vaulted into best of all time talk instantly. His skills alone should have given him the credibility to be in those discussions well before he got a championship. It's so frustrating when all that's important is the number of championships a player has. There are so many different factors that play into winning a championship such as teammates, coaching, injuries, strength of schedule, and the LUCK. Who was the person who suggested this statistic to be used as the ultimate measuring tool? He should be shot like the guy who invented the box score.

[cjtaylorpt]

Originally Posted by rox4lyf This is such a prime of example why basketball or even sports logic is so antiquated and hypocritical. Something that is so fleeting like a championship which is controlled by a litany of various factors, most completely out of the control of the individual, is used as the ultimate end-all-be-all measuring tool of an athlete's success. Before LeBron won a championship people would never dare to mention him in the same breath with Jordan yet his skills were about the same as they are now. He was a HOF player before he won a championship. Yet, now that he won a championship, he gets vaulted into best of all time talk instantly. His skills alone should have given him the credibility to be in those discussions well before he got a championship. It's so frustrating when all that's important is the number of championships a player has. There are so many different factors that play into winning a championship such as teammates, coaching, injuries, strength of schedule, and the LUCK. Who was the person who suggested this statistic to be used as the ultimate measuring tool? He should be shot like the guy who invented the box score.

That's because at the end of the day, your team did not do anything until you win a championship.


Championships and your contribution to them are a huge part of how great you are.

[Han Solo]

Originally Posted by Shaud

Only 3 seasons of 30+ppg

He is supposed to be one of the greatest scorers of all time.

[Han Solo]

Originally Posted by Han Solo Only 3 seasons of 30+ppg He is supposed to be one of the greatest scorers of all time.

His 35 ppg season happened during a season where Iverson scored his career high 33ppg at age 30 and Lebron avg'd almost 32ppg. Arenas at 29ppg. Theres a reason why there was crazy scoring that season.

[cjtaylorpt]

Originally Posted by Han Solo Only 3 seasons of 30+ppg He is supposed to be one of the greatest scorers of all time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ts_career.html

He is...

[cjtaylorpt]

Originally Posted by cjtaylorpt http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ts_career.html He is...

In fact at the end of his career, he will most likely be number 3 on the list behind KAJ and Karl Malone.

[Han Solo]

Originally Posted by cjtaylorpt http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ts_career.html He is...

He's played since he was 18. Lebron will also be ahead of him barring any major injuries. When you look at PPG + FG% Kobe and Iverson are there together. Lebron will be up with Jordan.

Kobe is an all time great no doubt. I gave him his props as a top 15 player.

[Han Solo]

What's crazy about that all time scoring list is thinking about if Jordan played full seasons in 86 instead of 18 games and in 95 instead of 17 games. Lets say he scores 2800 total in 86 and 2400 in 95. That would put him at number 2 with way far less games than either Jabar Malone or Kobe. Dude was insane.

Anyone know what his career ppg avg would be without those 2 seasons?

[MambaJoe]

I think Lebron can be a better all around player. But its no sense to compare the two. Its different. Lebron is a different player from Jordan. I think Lebron is a better comparison to Scottie Pippin because the two plays the same position, and are great all around players.

But Jordan impacts the game way more than Lebron. From on the court to off the court. Its just not really a fair comparison. The two plays different position. Lebron James will be great in his own legacy. He's not going to have a Jordan like legacy. There will never be another Jordan again. I think every single player has their own legacy to accomplish. Every legacy is different, special and great in their own ways.

[kaocsaephan]

LeBron has the potential to. Most of the people here know it and are, over time, increasingly willing to acknowledge it (aside from a few Kobe/Laker fans). He has been dominant in all facets of the game for a while now. Even before he entered his prime (2009?), he'd always been a top-3 player since 2006. Dude is unreal.

I used to hate LeBron but there's no point to it. He's kind and humble. Perhaps he could have approached a few scenarios differently, but they were still relatively harmless.

One of the most versatile players ever. One of the most efficient players ever. He has the stats, deep play-off runs, memorable games, and personal accolades. Only thing lacking is a few more FMVP's. Two more and he's top-5 all-time. Three+ and he is no-doubt the 2nd best all-time (because we know the stats will be there).

Jordan is should not be judged for "6/6" in the finals. He was 6/15. LeBron is 1/9. Not too ridiculous to imagine LeBron being 4-5/16. And for every single year of their careers they have been the undisputed best players of their team. Barring no major injuries, if LBJ continues this level of play/efficiency for the next 5 years, he is going to be top-5 all time if he only ends up with 2 FMVP's. There's just no way around it. It's time to put your petty hate aside and enjoy his game. Dude is total domination.

[kaocsaephan]

It may be sensationalism to some, but LBJ's presence is undeniable:

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012...formances-ever

http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miam...l-playoff-runs
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I think he can personally own 5-8 of top-25 playoff performances by the time he's done, lol. And it wouldn't be too crazy to have another entry in post-season runs.

He's just too good. I don't know why he fancies the passing game so much. I'd much rather he take 22+ FGA's. At his efficiency and with his skills, it would be better basketball for everyone. I think see LBJ go 30/7/5 is more exciting than 27/8/6. Anyway, the next five seasons will determine everything.

[mattrbowers]

Misleading title ...