GOP: Female body has natural defense against pregnancy in case of legitimate rape

[justtxyank]

Originally Posted by geeimsobored Sidenote but what's a "forcible rape?" Isn't all rape forced?

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...crime/rapemain

Definition Forcible rape, as defined in the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, is the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will. Attempts or assaults to commit rape by force or threat of force are also included; however, statutory rape (without force) and other sex offenses are excluded. Data collection The UCR Program counts one offense for each female victim of a forcible rape, attempted forcible rape, or assault with intent to rape, regardless of the victim’s age. A rape by force involving a female victim and a familial offender is counted as a forcible rape and not an act of incest. All other crimes of a sexual nature are considered to be Part II offenses; as such, the UCR Program collects only arrest data for those crimes. The offense of statutory rape, in which no force is used but the female victim is under the age of consent, is included in the arrest total for the sex offenses category. Sexual attacks on males are counted as aggravated assaults or sex offenses, depending on the circumstances and the extent of any injuries. For this overview only, the FBI deviated from standard procedure and manually calculated the 2009 and 2010 rates of females raped based on the national female population provided by the U.S. Census Bureau. Overview There were an estimated at 84,767 forcible rapes reported to law enforcement in 2010. This estimate was 5.0 percent lower than the 2009 estimate and 10.3 percent and 6.7 percent lower than the 2006 and 2001 estimates, respectively. (See Tables 1 and 1A.) The rate of forcible rapes in 2010 was estimated at 54.2 per 100,000 female inhabitants. Rapes by force comprised 93.0 percent of reported rape offenses in 2010, and attempts or assaults to commit rape accounted for 7.0 percent of reported rapes. (Based on Table 19.)

[Deckard]

The post above states that 93% of reported rapes are forcible rapes, so they are the overwhelming number of reported raped in the United States. I was careful to say "reported," because in my opinion, a very large number of forcible rapes are not reported by the woman who was a victim. Shame and fear, among other reasons, cause many to just not report the assault. Which is both terrifying to think about and a reflection, IMO, of the state of our society and how our society treats women. It is not a flattering picture.

[justtxyank]

Originally Posted by Deckard The post above states that 93% of reported rapes are forcible rapes, so they are the overwhelming number of reported raped in the United States. I was careful to say "reported," because in my opinion, a very large number of forcible rapes are not reported by the woman who was a victim. Shame and fear, among other reasons, cause many to just not report the assault. Which is both terrifying to think about and a reflection, IMO, of the state of our society and how our society treats women. It is not a flattering picture.

You are correct. I touched on the under reporting in my first post. I did a study and subsequent paper on this in college. Rape statistics are very troubling when you study them.

Also note that the forcible rapes reported (if I'm reading the definition correctly) also include rapes that could not result in a pregnancy.

Attempts or assaults to commit rape by force or threat of force are also included

[Rocket River]

A Clayton Williams moment

Rocket River

[kevC]

"Besides, if I get raped, it would be my fault for dressing like this"

[mc mark]

So can anyone tell us who Akin's partner was on all the anti-choice legislation that's come out of the GOP congress in the last few years?

[glynch]

Originally Posted by juicystream I'm a very pro-life person. I would provide no exception for rape (I feel terrible for those women, but how do we rationalize murder of the innocent?). What a completely stupid thing to say.

Are you also into frequent elective wars, capital punishment, handguns everywhere and medical care only for those who have money like most of the rest of the "right to lifers"?

[justtxyank]

Originally Posted by glynch Are you also into frequent elective wars, capital punishment, handguns everywhere and medical care only for those who have money like most of the rest of the "right to lifers"?

These arguments that get made against pro-lifers don't hold up under logical review.

Right to life argument on abortion: Abortion is the murder of an innocent life

Pro Choice argument back: Yeah? Well you support the execution of a convicted criminal? HYPOCRITE!

There is an obvious difference between the two and is silly that you would fail to see it. The other two are just pointless to even compare.

That said, as a Pro-Lifer I;
am against Capital Punishment
Favor gun rights
Oppose "elective wars" (though I'd argue most people do. The people who support our wars don't think of them as elective.)
Favor insurance reform but do not see health insurance as a basic right

[RocketMan Tex]

Originally Posted by mc mark So can anyone tell us who Akin's partner was on all the anti-choice legislation that's come out of the GOP congress in the last few years?

Paul Ryan, your GOP candidate for Vice President of the United States.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

[RocketMan Tex]

Originally Posted by justtxyank These arguments that get made against pro-lifers don't hold up under logical review. Right to life argument on abortion: Abortion is the murder of an innocent life Pro Choice argument back: Yeah? Well you support the execution of a convicted criminal? HYPOCRITE!

Don't know who you were arguing with, but the pro-choicers I know believe that a woman has the right to choose what she does with her own body, including her own womb. And that is why they support abortion rights.

[justtxyank]

Originally Posted by RocketMan Tex Don't know who you were arguing with, but the pro-choicers I know believe that a woman has the right to choose what she does with her own body, including her own womb. And that is why they support abortion rights.

I was arguing with Glynch. (I quoted him)

He was mocking the pro-life position by pointing out positions that in his mind are hypocritical. The one I specifically was pointing out is that pro-capital punishment is not contrary to being pro-life on the theory of it.

[mc mark]

Originally Posted by RocketMan Tex Paul Ryan, your GOP candidate for Vice President of the United States. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

The ads are being cut as we speak.

BTW rumors are running wild that Akin will drop out tomorrow (after some heavy leaning from the Romney camp).

[juicystream]

Originally Posted by glynch Are you also into frequent elective wars, capital punishment, handguns everywhere and medical care only for those who have money like most of the rest of the "right to lifers"?

While I consider those extremely different, I will respond to your questions:

Elective wars? No. Iraq supporter originally, but my feelings have changed as to our responsibility to police the world (it isn't). Afghan war I don't consider elective. We did waste to much time and effort there, and we weren't without a large chunk of innocent casualties, which is not okay.

Capital punishment? I have no problem with killing certain criminals. I believe you can forfeit your fundamental right to life. Cost associated with it is too expensive though. If the financial savings don't exist, I don't see the purpose.

Hand guns? I am strongly in favor of stronger gun laws, at the federal level. Handguns will remain legal, so I don't see the point in fighting it. I would support limiting the number an individual could own.

Healthcare? I support a universal healthcare system. We can't just let people die because they don't have money. Our system is beyond inefficient, and it just doesn't work for enough people.

[giddyup]

Originally Posted by RocketMan Tex Don't know who you were arguing with, but the pro-choicers I know believe that a woman has the right to choose what she does with her own body, including her own womb. And that is why they support abortion rights.

That kind of rhetoric has been poured out here for years. How can you be pro-Life (on Abortion) and support the Death Penalty or any war just name it... et al.

[fchowd0311]

Originally Posted by juicystream While I consider those extremely different, I will respond to your questions: Elective wars? No. Iraq supporter originally, but my feelings have changed as to our responsibility to police the world (it isn't). Afghan war I don't consider elective. We did waste to much time and effort there, and we weren't without a large chunk of innocent casualties, which is not okay. Capital punishment? I have no problem with killing certain criminals. I believe you can forfeit your fundamental right to life. Cost associated with it is too expensive though. If the financial savings don't exist, I don't see the purpose. Hand guns? I am strongly in favor of stronger gun laws, at the federal level. Handguns will remain legal, so I don't see the point in fighting it. I would support limiting the number an individual could own. Healthcare? I support a universal healthcare system. We can't just let people die because they don't have money. Our system is beyond inefficient, and it just doesn't work for enough people.

I do not think that he is specifically singling out a specific poster but in most cases people who have opinions on abortion follow the party line with other issues. And it is hard to not observe that people who follow the Republican party line abortion is the only issue they have a soft spot for when it comes to caring about other's lives.

[Major]

Originally Posted by giddyup That kind of rhetoric has been poured out here for years. How can you be pro-Life (on Abortion) and support the Death Penalty

Why is this complex? Why can't people think it's not OK to kill an innocent life but is OK to kill someone who's committed a crime?

If you're pro-choice, do you also have to be anti-jail, since jail takes away a person's choice to not be in jail?

[Major]

Originally Posted by giddyup That kind of rhetoric has been poured out here for years. How can you be pro-Life (on Abortion) and support the Death Penalty or any war just name it... et al.

Whoops - for some reason, I thought you were glynch and making this as an argument. My bad.

[Joe Joe]

Pro-Life
Anti Abortion
Anti Capital Punishment
Only for wars only to protect life and the dignity of life (e.g. freeing slaves). My view on wars has changed as I've become more pro-life.

On Health Care. I am for it, but not sure the best way to implement. I think the most efficient system for universal health care would be one done by federal government, but I think a Constitutional Amendment would be required as I think this would usurp some rights reserved to the States.

[HI Mana]

Originally Posted by StupidMoniker It is a concession some people make to the pro-choice crowd, because there is a lot of outcry from that crowd when the concession is not made. It isn't so much that they support such exceptions, as they are willing to concede that ground to address the larger issue. I don't personally support such an exception. It isn't the kid's fault his father was a rapist after all.

And I believe that those who make the concession forfeit their moral high ground. While I strongly disagree with Rep. Akin and Rep. Ryan's idea that abortion should not be legal, I am happy that they argued it truthfully, without exceptions that would likely be extremely difficult to enforce in practice.

The fact of the matter is, if you put it up to a vote between a total blanket abortion ban with only an exception for the health of the mother, versus allowing abortions up until fetal viability, with no way to temper it on either side, I think that the vast majority of America would choose for allowing abortions. In the same way that agnostics are really atheists with some reservation, those who allow for rape/incest exceptions are really pro-choice, and in this regard, the postion the GOP House as well as it's vice-presidential nominee seems quite extreme.

[Nook]

pro-choice
pro-capital punishment
pro-second amendment
pro-health care reform