Has LBJ now surpassed Kobe?

[gmoney411]

Originally Posted by kaocsaephan KD doesn't fit on the Heat because he can't do the things LBJ does: help them play defense and create plays. That's the whole point. LBJ can basically fit in every team in the league. I admit I've grown to be pro-LeBron since 2008 when Celtics and Lakers stacked on his earned-time to shine, but I also believe it's a shame people criticize LeBron (career averages of 27.6, 7, 6.9 on 48%) for a lack of championships (team accomplishments). FACT: 99.5% of NBA players would have had a career game with those numbers. At the risk of sounding like a LBJ fanboy, we are all witnesses. Dude is incredible. I think he'd put up even better numbers if he wasn't so concerned about getting assists and what others thought of him.

I agree that KD doesn't fit because he can't do all the things Lebron does. Lebron is a guy you can throw on almost any team in the league and they are instantly better because he can do so many things. However, on a good team you don't need one player to do all those things. I think on the old Bulls Kobe is a better fit than Lebron because Lebron's all around skills aren't as needed with Pippen defending the best wing player and handling the ball and Rodman dominating the boards.

I hate Lebron the athlete but there is no denying that he is a top talent of all time. I just don't think his all around stats necessarily make him better than other players that did certain things better and could have the other things Lebron does filled in by a pg, or a solid pf etc.

[jjgfour]

LeBron wins a ring and now he's better than Kobe? Calm down now... Kobe has been in the league much longer and has achieved much more. People say Kobe had Shaq, but if you think about it, Shaq had Kobe. He left Orlando for LA because he knew how special of a player Kobe is. I am not discrediting LeBron, but it's not too special to say you won with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh in your starting lineup. They should be expected to win. No player wins championships by themselves of course, but there are players who work harder win with what they have; In example, Hakeem Olajuwon. In my opinion, KD is the best player in the planet right now.

[Jonhty]

Originally Posted by gmoney411 You should have. That was me trying to downplay Lebron's all around talent. I agree that KD can't do as many things as Lebron does but I also don't think I need my best player to do everything.

your only argument is kd scores more efficiently. i would argue that if lebron decides to focus solely on scoring as kd, he will do it as well if not better. either way, the bottom line is lebron doesn't need his supporting cast to play better than durant's to win.

[gmoney411]

Originally Posted by Jonhty your only argument is kd scores more efficiently. i would argue that if lebron decides to focus solely on scoring as kd, he will do it as well if not better. either way, the bottom line is lebron doesn't need his supporting cast to play better than durant's to win.

I'm not sure Lebron could be. It's not like he already doesn't shoot a lot and his perimeter game is nowhere close to Durant's.

[ObamaFan]

Put LeBron James on any team in the NBA right now, and they win 50 games next year

[gmoney411]

Originally Posted by ObamaFan Put LeBron James on any team in the NBA right now, and they win 50 games next year

He would not have won 50 games on that Bobcats team.

[ObamaFan]

Originally Posted by gmoney411 He would not have won 50 games on that Bobcats team.

They would have made the playoffs, i guarentee you that much

[roslolian]

Originally Posted by gmoney411 I'm not sure Lebron could be. It's not like he already doesn't shoot a lot and his perimeter game is nowhere close to Durant's.

Lebron isn't a stiff offensively you know, he can do a lot of things KD can't do like post people up. He's also a decent shooter, and can hit 3s with some accuracy.

If you're comparing player skills, Lebron's like 90 on offense and KD's 99. Its pretty close, so I don't know why you think KD is just because he shoots slightly better. I'd rather have my player be slightly worse offensively but then do everything else, if you already have someone good at defending and rebounding then great, LBJ will complement that in addition to being a premier offensive threat.

[Jonhty]

Originally Posted by gmoney411 I'm not sure Lebron could be. It's not like he already doesn't shoot a lot and his perimeter game is nowhere close to Durant's.

he shot less than durant in each of last three seasons. he also shot virtually the same TS% as durant over the last 3 seasons. if he drops his production/intensity in other areas of the game to durant's level, tell me why the saved energy wouldn't result in more shots and better TS%.

[Steve_Francis_rules]

Originally Posted by jjgfour LeBron wins a ring and now he's better than Kobe? Calm down now... Kobe has been in the league much longer and has achieved much more. People say Kobe had Shaq, but if you think about it, Shaq had Kobe. He left Orlando for LA because he knew how special of a player Kobe is. I am not discrediting LeBron, but it's not too special to say you won with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh in your starting lineup. They should be expected to win. No player wins championships by themselves of course, but there are players who work harder win with what they have; In example, Hakeem Olajuwon. In my opinion, KD is the best player in the planet right now.

That's certainly a unique take and some nice revisionist history.

Shaq, who was already teammates with a guy who had proven himself to be one of the most dynamic guards in the entire league (Penny), didn't leave Orlando because he wanted to be a star in the most glamour city in the US.

Or because he wanted to play for one of the two most storied franchises in league history.

Or because he wanted to play for a team with a ton of proven talent (Van Excel, Jones, Campbell, Ceballos) and the best GM in the league.

No, it turns out Shaq went to the Lakers because he so desperately wanted to be teammates with a 17 year old late lottery pick who had never played a second of basketball at any level higher than high school varsity.

[gmoney411]

Originally Posted by Jonhty he shot less than durant in each of last three seasons. he also shot virtually the same TS% as durant over the last 3 seasons. if he drops his production/intensity in other areas of the game to durant's level, tell me why the saved energy wouldn't result in more shots and better TS%.

You seem to think that because Lebron is a better defense player that he is trying harder on defense than Durant which I don't believe. Also, on most nights Lebron isn't defending guys like DRose, Durant etc. During the regular season Durant averaged more rebounds than Lebron so it's not like Lebron is working harder to get boards than Durant. I will admit that Lebron is handling the ball more but I don't think that as any more tiring than Durant running off screens to get open shots.

[mau]

Originally Posted by gmoney411 You seem to think that because Lebron is a better defense player that he is trying harder on defense than Durant which I don't believe. Also, on most nights Lebron isn't defending guys like DRose, Durant etc. During the regular season Durant averaged more rebounds than Lebron so it's not like Lebron is working harder to get boards than Durant. I will admit that Lebron is handling the ball more but I don't think that as any more tiring than Durant running off screens to get open shots.

Durant is basically 7 feet tall, and got slightly more boards than Lebron.
Now, Lebron's passing puts him further ahead from KD at this point. He got his 28/30 every game in the finals, plus all the assists. KD will never fill out a box score like that. Whatever you need, you can probably have Lebron do, you can't ask the same from Durant, at least not yet

[wekko368]

Originally Posted by gmoney411 During the regular season Durant averaged more rebounds than Lebron so it's not like Lebron is working harder to get boards than Durant.

Actually, you can make an argument he is. First, Durant averaged more rebounds b/c he played more minutes. Per 36 minutes, Lebron averages slightly more. Regardless, the difference is negligible. Secondly, look at their offensive rebounding. Lebron averaged 1.5 orpg. Durant averaged 0.6 orpg.

Over twice as many offensive rebounds. To me, that's working harder to get boards.

[plutoblue11]

Originally Posted by gmoney411 You seem to think that because Lebron is a better defense player that he is trying harder on defense than Durant which I don't believe. Also, on most nights Lebron isn't defending guys like DRose, Durant etc. During the regular season Durant averaged more rebounds than Lebron so it's not like Lebron is working harder to get boards than Durant. I will admit that Lebron is handling the ball more but I don't think that as any more tiring than Durant running off screens to get open shots.

Stop mudding the water, just say you cannot make a rational case against LeBron, because you don't like the guy.


Yes, on the sole the fact that LeBron is more well-rounded than most players and stars does make him a better player. If a player is more well-rounded that means that he can better able compliment the abilities of his teammates.
LeBron is an ideal player to have for a team that has other superstars or teams that almost resemble a D-II college roster. He's a very smart and unselfish player who initiate offense for his teammates, while he's also the greatest of scorers.You never seen players who could do that outside of Oscar Robertson, Larry Bird, and Michael Jordan on occasion. It doesn't necessarily make a player the greatest, but it does make more versatile and he can effective control the offensive tempo of his team.


If you look at the best all-around players in history - Bird, Magic, Wilt, Russell, Olajuwon, Oscar, and even MJ (to a point). There skills are good in many different areas. Pretty much everyone I just named, except maybe Olajuwon and Jordan was an exceptional passer, but they were good.


People tended to say all Wilt could do was score, yet he is the all time leader rebounds, great at boxing out, great shot blocker, run the floor very well, and yes...he also could pass and collect assist like a wing player. He's pretty much greater than every other scorer, except arguably Michael Jordan. What's ironic about that scoring may not have been his best or most indomitable quality.

[gmoney411]

Originally Posted by plutoblue11 Stop mudding the water, just say you cannot make a rational case against LeBron, because you don't like the guy. Yes, on the sole the fact that LeBron is more well-rounded than most players and stars does make him a better player. If a player is more well-rounded that means that he can better able compliment the abilities of his teammates. LeBron is an ideal player to have for a team that has other superstars or teams that almost resemble a D-II college roster. He's a very smart and unselfish player who initiate offense for his teammates, while he's also the greatest of scorers.You never seen players who could do that outside of Oscar Robertson, Larry Bird, and Michael Jordan on occasion. It doesn't necessarily make a player the greatest, but it does make more versatile and he can effective control the offensive tempo of his team. If you look at the best all-around players in history - Bird, Magic, Wilt, Russell, Olajuwon, Oscar, and even MJ (to a point). There skills are good in many different areas. Pretty much everyone I just named, except maybe Olajuwon and Jordan was an exceptional passer, but they were good. People tended to say all Wilt could do was score, yet he is the all time leader rebounds, great at boxing out, great shot blocker, run the floor very well, and yes...he also could pass and collect assist like a wing player. He's pretty much greater than every other scorer, except arguably Michael Jordan. What's ironic about that scoring may not have been his best or most indomitable quality.

I'm honestly not sure what point you are trying to make here. What is it that I can't make a rational case against? I think Lebron is the best player in basketball right now.

[gmoney411]

Originally Posted by wekko368 Actually, you can make an argument he is. First, Durant averaged more rebounds b/c he played more minutes. Per 36 minutes, Lebron averages slightly more. Regardless, the difference is negligible. Secondly, look at their offensive rebounding. Lebron averaged 1.5 orpg. Durant averaged 0.6 orpg. Over twice as many offensive rebounds. To me, that's working harder to get boards.

Is it or are those offensive rebounds a result of him playing more in the lane/paint on offense. My guess would be he gets those because he tends to be closer to the rim on offense than Durant and gets more tip ins, rebounds on his misses, etc. I honestly have no idea but that would be my first guess.

[wekko368]

Originally Posted by gmoney411 Is it or are those offensive rebounds a result of him playing more in the lane/paint on offense. My guess would be he gets those because he tends to be closer to the rim on offense than Durant and gets more tip ins, rebounds on his misses, etc. I honestly have no idea but that would be my first guess.

Yes. In other words, working harder.

[gmoney411]

Originally Posted by wekko368 Yes. In other words, working harder.

Running off screens and fighting to get open is not easy. Durant isn't Kobe who just dribbles the ball and then takes a difficult jump shot these days.

[supdudes]

OK

Kobe is overrated and is only top 20 all time. LBJ is a all around player that does everything better than Kobe irregardless of championships one (pun intended). But he is slightly behind MJ who despite everything is the best to ever play. People should embrace LBJ and not hate him at all even they are from Cleveland because they were blessed with him at least for a few years.

That's what you guys want to hear isn't it?

[t_mac1]

What I'm glad about Lebron winning is people will now stop saying Kobe is STILL currently the best player in the league. That delusional talk should die out completely from now on.