Chad Ford Mock Draft 7.0

[jopatmc]

Originally Posted by crash5179 Hind sight is 20/20 but being traded for Ron Artest back then was not an Indictment that the Rockets did not like him. There is every indication in fact that they did like him. There is only wild speculation to support otherwise.

Here's the conundrum. If the Rockets indeed valued Donte, at the very least they viewed him as a project, not capable of helping them his rookie season. And they made the trade becasue they wanted to win right now.

So if you are drafting a guy with the thought in mind that he is a project, why are you having him jack shots during summer league? They already knew he could shoot. They didn't feel he was ready because of his defense. So, once again, why let him just free jack during summer league and put up monster scoring numbers instead of concentrating on improving his D and doing defensive work? In my opinion, the answer to that question is very simple...to drive up his value and make him desired as a trade target of other teams so the Rox could trade him for a primary piece to help them contend, which is what ended up happening.

The other side of this is IF Donte had not thrown up those monster scoring numbers in those really meaningless summer league games....would his trade value have been high enough to get Artest?? In my opinion, the answer is NO.

[crash5179]

I don't think anyone plays there draft picks in summer league hoping to drive up their trade value. You have had guys like John Lucas III win summer league MVP. Quite honestly most of the compitifion in the summer league is only borderline NBA talent anyway and a large number of those will never play in an NBA game.

No doubt that Greens big scoring game garnered some attention but he was more of a project when drafted. There is no question in my mind that the Rockets drafted him because they liked his potential but I don't think anyone viewed him as NBA ready that would push the Rockets over the hump for a championship.

[BimaThug]

jopatmc, I understand why you might believe that complex, intricate story about a conspiracy to draft Donte Greene for the sole purpose of "showcasing" him in the summer league in order to pump up his trade value. But, dude, the truth is far, far simpler.

Donte Greene was just the highest rated guy left on the Rockets' board when their pick came up. That's it.

And don't get me started again about what it means to draft a player FOR ANOTHER TEAM. The Rockets did not draft Nicolas Batum for themselves. Never happened. BEFORE they made the selection, they made a deal with Portland, who wanted to jump ahead of San Antonio (drafting at #26) in order to get Batum. Portland wanted Batum, so the Rockets drafted him FOR PORTLAND and picked up the #27 and #33 picks in the process. Just like the Rockets never selected Rudy Gay for themselves, they never selected Nicolas Batum for themselves. To say otherwise is just foolish.

The Rockets also didn't select Darrell Arthur for themselves and then suddenly have a change of heart and send him to Memphis. Memphis desperately wanted Arthur and was willing to trade their 2009 second rounder (which was going to be a high pick) just to move up ONE SPOT to get him. So, Morey made the no-brainer move to do that deal, and he selected Arthur FOR MEMPHIS at #27, picking up #28 and the 2009 second rounder from Memphis.

After all that, the Rockets had Memphis select Donte Greene for them, the Rockets had Portland select Joey Dorsey for them, and then the trades were announced later after the draft.

This was all just normal draft-day dealing, not a case of teams taking guys for themselves and then deciding five minutes later to trade them to other teams.

Originally Posted by ROXTXIA Wow, this again. Someone mentioned Donte Greene and Artest, one of bimathug's pet peeves. You mention it and it's like telling Sean Hannity that Obama's a great President. Seriously. Thanks for explaining your opinion. I had the same opinion, but mine was because I remember reading well before the draft that Sacramento was really high on Donte, and because I was a little torn: is Adelman looking for a new Peja? because it doesn't seem like a Morey pick. Green seemed a 3-point shooting totem pole. Maybe bima had inside info. Maybe Adelman really wanted Greene but Morey had another plan.

Let's just say I have it on good authority that this is how it all went down.

Originally Posted by crash5179 At the time Artest was seen as a superstar and some one to complete the Rockets Big Three with Yao, TMac and Artest. With all the upside anyone might have seen in Green, it did not compare with what a prime Artest would bring to a championship team. I'm sure the Rockets liked Green and his potential a lot but trading him for Artest if you are going for a championship now is a no brainer. Kings were rebuilding while Rockets were in the fight for a ring.

This. It's not like the Rockets were IN LOVE with Greene. He was, after all, taken with the #28 pick; and the Rockets moved back TWICE in the draft, with at least one move back risking losing him. He was the top guy on their board late, late in the first round. He wasn't necessarily viewed as a franchise changer. Just a good young player. Certainly not worth turning down a chance to get a (near) All-Star caliber player in Ron Artest.

Originally Posted by jopatmc Here's the conundrum. If the Rockets indeed valued Donte, at the very least they viewed him as a project, not capable of helping them his rookie season. And they made the trade becasue they wanted to win right now. So if you are drafting a guy with the thought in mind that he is a project, why are you having him jack shots during summer league? They already knew he could shoot. They didn't feel he was ready because of his defense. So, once again, why let him just free jack during summer league and put up monster scoring numbers instead of concentrating on improving his D and doing defensive work? In my opinion, the answer to that question is very simple...to drive up his value and make him desired as a trade target of other teams so the Rox could trade him for a primary piece to help them contend, which is what ended up happening. The other side of this is IF Donte had not thrown up those monster scoring numbers in those really meaningless summer league games....would his trade value have been high enough to get Artest?? In my opinion, the answer is NO.

Again, jopatmc, I think you're reading WAYYYY too much into the Rockets' 2008 edition of their freaking summer league team. Donte Greene had a good run shooting the ball and was especially hot for one game, in which he went off for 40 points. That's it. There was no conspiracy theory.

Go back and look at that summer league team roster. The only other "NBA quality" scorers on that team were Aaron Brooks, Mike Harris and Maarty Leunen. Greene was literally the only wing player on that team with even a remote shot of making the Rockets' regular season roster.

You're a smart guy. It's just that, sometimes, you think too much.

[jopatmc]

Bima,

just because he's the highest guy they've got on their draft board doesn't mean he's their guy. You're talking about picks in the low 20's here. That's why the idea that they drafted him for themselves does not make much sense. They drafted him because they had to pick somebody and he was the highest rated guy left. They did not take him because he was "their guy" and was going to be a substantial part of the rotation. They took him because he was the most attractive "asset" on their board.

[TEXNIFICENT]

Originally Posted by BimaThug jopatmc, I understand why you might believe that complex, intricate story about a conspiracy to draft Donte Greene for the sole purpose of "showcasing" him in the summer league in order to pump up his trade value. But, dude, the truth is far, far simpler. Donte Greene was just the highest rated guy left on the Rockets' board when their pick came up. That's it. And don't get me started again about what it means to draft a player FOR ANOTHER TEAM. The Rockets did not draft Nicolas Batum for themselves. Never happened. BEFORE they made the selection, they made a deal with Portland, who wanted to jump ahead of San Antonio (drafting at #26) in order to get Batum. Portland wanted Batum, so the Rockets drafted him FOR PORTLAND and picked up the #27 and #33 picks in the process. Just like the Rockets never selected Rudy Gay for themselves, they never selected Nicolas Batum for themselves. To say otherwise is just foolish. The Rockets also didn't select Darrell Arthur for themselves and then suddenly have a change of heart and send him to Memphis. Memphis desperately wanted Arthur and was willing to trade their 2009 second rounder (which was going to be a high pick) just to move up ONE SPOT to get him. So, Morey made the no-brainer move to do that deal, and he selected Arthur FOR MEMPHIS at #27, picking up #28 and the 2009 second rounder from Memphis. After all that, the Rockets had Memphis select Donte Greene for them, the Rockets had Portland select Joey Dorsey for them, and then the trades were announced later after the draft. This was all just normal draft-day dealing, not a case of teams taking guys for themselves and then deciding five minutes later to trade them to other teams. Let's just say I have it on good authority that this is how it all went down. This. It's not like the Rockets were IN LOVE with Greene. He was, after all, taken with the #28 pick; and the Rockets moved back TWICE in the draft, with at least one move back risking losing him. He was the top guy on their board late, late in the first round. He wasn't necessarily viewed as a franchise changer. Just a good young player. Certainly not worth turning down a chance to get a (near) All-Star caliber player in Ron Artest. Again, jopatmc, I think you're reading WAYYYY too much into the Rockets' 2008 edition of their freaking summer league team. Donte Greene had a good run shooting the ball and was especially hot for one game, in which he went off for 40 points. That's it. There was no conspiracy theory. Go back and look at that summer league team roster. The only other "NBA quality" scorers on that team were Aaron Brooks, Mike Harris and Maarty Leunen. Greene was literally the only wing player on that team with even a remote shot of making the Rockets' regular season roster. You're a smart guy. It's just that, sometimes, you think too much.

THE WRATH OF BIMA!

[ROXTXIA]

Originally Posted by TEXNIFICENT THE WRATH OF BIMA!

That was actually pretty calm compared to past rants on this subject. He's gotten downright nasty. This was bimathug lite.

[BimaThug]

Originally Posted by TEXNIFICENT THE WRATH OF BIMA!

Hahahaha! No wrath. jopatmc's a great poster. Consider this more of "an education."

Originally Posted by ROXTXIA That was actually pretty calm compared to past rants on this subject. He's gotten downright nasty. This was bimathug lite.

I'd like to think that I've mellowed in my old(er) age.

Originally Posted by jopatmc Bima, just because he's the highest guy they've got on their draft board doesn't mean he's their guy. You're talking about picks in the low 20's here. That's why the idea that they drafted him for themselves does not make much sense. They drafted him because they had to pick somebody and he was the highest rated guy left. They did not take him because he was "their guy" and was going to be a substantial part of the rotation. They took him because he was the most attractive "asset" on their board.

Okay. And your point is...?

Teams take the BPA all the time. Teams drafting outside the top-5 don't often draft players with the thought of them being their franchise savior.

And, true, as a general rule, if a recently drafted player's stock increases to the point where a contending team could use that player to acquire a (near) All-Star caliber player to help them better contend for a championship, they will not let the drafted player's potential stand in their way of making that deal.

None of this is news.

However, you are making this all out to be some elaborate STRATEGY revolving around Donte Greene and a plan to sucker the Sacramento Kings (or another team) into giving up Ron Artest (or another top player) by purposely revolving their summer league team around pumping up Greene's trade value.

Well, what if Greene has missed most of his shots in summer league? Would his value have plummeted? Where would the Rockets have been then, with a 19-year-old perceived "chucker"? Plus, as crash aptly stated, it's not like summer league performance is the be-all, end-all. If so, then John Lucas III would have gotten a Kelvin Cato-like long-term contract.

I'm just telling you what ACTUALLY happened. You're reading too much into the Greene situation, and now you're trying to dig in with your viewpoint that, while based on general premises that are true, is in the end faulty.

Please come back to the light. The rest of us are waiting for you here.

(This is what you get, jopatmc, by setting a high standard with most of your other posts!)

[TEXNIFICENT]

Originally Posted by ROXTXIA That was actually pretty calm compared to past rants on this subject. He's gotten downright nasty. This was bimathug lite.

LMAO! I really enjoy Bima's posts especially his cap knowledge which is borderline scary.

[crash5179]

Originally Posted by jopatmc Bima, just because he's the highest guy they've got on their draft board doesn't mean he's their guy. You're talking about picks in the low 20's here. That's why the idea that they drafted him for themselves does not make much sense. They drafted him because they had to pick somebody and he was the highest rated guy left. They did not take him because he was "their guy" and was going to be a substantial part of the rotation. They took him because he was the most attractive "asset" on their board.

None of that's means they drafted him for the Kings or with the purpose of traiding him.

[jopatmc]

Originally Posted by BimaThug Hahahaha! No wrath. jopatmc's a great poster. Consider this more of "an education." I'd like to think that I've mellowed in my old(er) age. Okay. And your point is...? Teams take the BPA all the time. Teams drafting outside the top-5 don't often draft players with the thought of them being their franchise savior. And, true, as a general rule, if a recently drafted player's stock increases to the point where a contending team could use that player to acquire a (near) All-Star caliber player to help them better contend for a championship, they will not let the drafted player's potential stand in their way of making that deal. None of this is news. However, you are making this all out to be some elaborate STRATEGY revolving around Donte Greene and a plan to sucker the Sacramento Kings (or another team) into giving up Ron Artest (or another top player) by purposely revolving their summer league team around pumping up Greene's trade value. Well, what if Greene has missed most of his shots in summer league? Would his value have plummeted? Where would the Rockets have been then, with a 19-year-old perceived "chucker"? Plus, as crash aptly stated, it's not like summer league performance is the be-all, end-all. If so, then John Lucas III would have gotten a Kelvin Cato-like long-term contract. I'm just telling you what ACTUALLY happened. You're reading too much into the Greene situation, and now you're trying to dig in with your viewpoint that, while based on general premises that are true, is in the end faulty. Please come back to the light. The rest of us are waiting for you here. (This is what you get, jopatmc, by setting a high standard with most of your other posts!)

My point is they drafted him with the idea of using him to acquire a rotation piece to make them a championship contender, not with the idea of developing him and making him a rotation piece 2 or 3 years down the road. And that is why they told him to go fire the rock during summer league. You know they did tell him that.....don't you? You do realize the Rox told him to fire away during summer league....don't you?


Sorry, if I made it out to be about suckering the Kings. No, I believe it was about "suckering" somebody. That somebody happened to be the Kings. Bima, you know this kind of gamesmanship goes on all the time. It's going on right now, everyday, teams letting out rumors that they "like" this player or that player. Most of it is gaming and false rumors designed to help them uncover information and get other teams to call them up and talk turkey. And then when they are talking turkey to the other team's GM, those guys are always conning each other. That doesn't mean they are lying and deceiving. But they can intentionally say things and not say things that cause people to be swayed to believe one thing or the other. In Donte's case, I am convinced the Rockets never viewed Donte as a serious NBA player. They didn't view anybody as serious NBA players from their position down in the first round. That's why they kept trading down and picking up second rounders that they could take "chances" on without giving out guaranteed contracts. They never viewed Donte as a keeper.

[crash5179]

Originally Posted by jopatmc My point is they drafted him with the idea of using him to acquire a rotation piece to make them a championship contender, not with the idea of developing him and making him a rotation piece 2 or 3 years down the road. And that is why they told him to go fire the rock during summer league. You know they did tell him that.....don't you? You do realize the Rox told him to fire away during summer league....don't you?

There is nothing to indicate they drafted him with the specific intention of traiding him. That is wild speculation. Every player and every draft pick is an asset (not a dirty word) that can be used to improve a team if the right trade comes along.

The Rockets had no more or no less intent to trade Green than they did with Aaron Brooks, Carl Landry, Chase Budinger etc... When they were 1st drafted.

[cjtaylorpt]

Bima, y u no work for Rockets?