Egypt Court miraculously sentences 12 Christian suspects, Acquits 8 Muslim suspects

[Mathloom]

An Egyptian court has sentenced 12 Christians to life in prison and acquitted eight Muslims in a case that is likely to stoke religious tensions in the country’s south. The Christians were found guilty of sowing public strife and shooting dead two Muslims in April of last year in Minya province after a scuffle with Muslim protesters. The eight Muslims on trial in the same case had been charged with possession of illegal weapons and burning down dozens of Christian-owned homes and stores after the shooting. Egyptian rights researcher Ishak Ibrahim called the verdict “faulty and unfair.”

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...232464,00.html

Egypt seems to be getting worse everyday, especially for the Christians.

[AroundTheWorld]

Arab spring?

[DaDakota]

Tolerent religion?

Not.

DD

[RedRedemption]

Stop spreading your religion and forcing them unto other people. Of course this crap is going to happen.

[justtxyank]

Originally Posted by RedRedemption Stop spreading your religion and forcing them unto other people. Of course this crap is going to happen.

I know right? This happens in all sorts of civilized countries like the US, Canada, most of Europe...

Oh wait...

[Summer Song Giver]

Originally Posted by RedRedemption Stop spreading your religion and forcing them unto other people. Of course this crap is going to happen.

you're a ****ing idiot

[rocketsjudoka]

This is one of the things that worries me about the Arab Spring is whether it will be hijacked by the ultra-religious. The move though from an authoritarian rule though to a democracy isn't going to be easy and it's not surprising the religious are asserting themselves but hopefully moderates will be able to assert themselves in the presidential election.

[dharocks]

Originally Posted by Summer Song Giver you're a ****ing idiot

We all were at 17. He's young. At least he has an opinion.

[RedRedemption]

Originally Posted by justtxyank I know right? This happens in all sorts of civilized countries like the US, Canada, most of Europe... Oh wait...

That's not the point. We're talking about periphery countries. Its sad to see how people kill each over something as trivial like religion.

[justtxyank]

Originally Posted by RedRedemption That's not the point. We're talking about periphery countries. Its sad to see how people kill each over something as trivial like religion.

To you religion is something "trivial." To many there is nothing more important. You say they are sad, they'd say you are sad. Why should either of you be arrested or killed for holding that belief?

[Sweet Lou 4 2]

Originally Posted by rocketsjudoka This is one of the things that worries me about the Arab Spring is whether it will be hijacked by the ultra-religious. The move though from an authoritarian rule though to a democracy isn't going to be easy and it's not surprising the religious are asserting themselves but hopefully moderates will be able to assert themselves in the presidential election.

Political partis will always try to subvert the democratic process to consolidate power. This is why a strong court system is so key to a free society. It's not just Egypt...look at Russia. Look at s. America. Heck it happens in the u.s. with the recent activities of the right to prevent poor minorities from voting.

These countries are not ready for democracy and I do think the middle east will become more fanatical vs. secular democracy.

[sammy]

Originally Posted by DaDakota Tolerent religion? Not.

There is plenty of unjustness in the world. People are idiots. They use religion as an excuse. But I guess I'm preaching to the choir.

[JuanValdez]

Egypt's probably in for a lot of turmoil for a long time. You don't have a revolution and go to a peaceful representative democracy in a day. The US had a revolution and couldn't abolish slavery until 100 years later. France had a revolution and couldn't even persist in a democracy until 100 years later. Russia cast off the tsar and 100 years later they still don't have a true democracy. Obviously, no country is going to ever be perfect. But, even to reach an acceptable minimum of democracy and civil rights after throwing off an establishment of authoritarian government and oppression takes multiple generations.

I'm not saying injustice in Egypt is okay, nor that we can't expect better. I am saying that making facile explanations about the oppression of Islam ignores what we see historically about how hard it is for any culture to make the transformation we want Egypt to make.

[glynch]

Originally Posted by rocketsjudoka This is one of the things that worries me about the Arab Spring is whether it will be hijacked by the ultra-religious. The move though from an authoritarian rule though to a democracy isn't going to be easy and it's not surprising the religious are asserting themselves but hopefully moderates will be able to assert themselves in the presidential election.

I don't like it either for the ultra-religious in Israel, Saudi and other and other countries in the Middle East to have such power. In Egypt, with the grinding poverty of the masses and a few US backed millionaire/billionaires, we should hope for a secular left. We can be damn sure there won't be moderate of the road trickle down types winning power democratically.

[RedRedemption]

Originally Posted by justtxyank To you religion is something "trivial." To many there is nothing more important. You say they are sad, they'd say you are sad. Why should either of you be arrested or killed for holding that belief?

They are usually the instigators. You don't see atheists running around killing people because they believe in something. However you see tons of theists running around killing other theists.

Religious strife isn't as bad now as it was in the past. Crusades, persecution, etc. However, the fact that it remains a variable for which people decide to use to segregate themselves from other human beings then I think it is a tragedy and should be seriously reformed (not abolished). Seriously. It dehumanizes those that don't believe the same way you do. Or at least sets a condescending vibe where you consider all non-believers of your faith to be uncivilized, dumb, unenlightened, etc.

[justtxyank]

Originally Posted by RedRedemption They are usually the instigators. You don't see atheists running around killing people because they believe in something. However you see tons of theists running around killing other theists. Religious strife isn't as bad now as it was in the past. Crusades, persecution, etc. However, the fact that it remains a variable for which people decide to use to segregate themselves from other human beings then I think it is a tragedy and should be seriously reformed (not abolished). Seriously. It dehumanizes those that don't believe the same way you do. Or at least sets a condescending vibe where you consider all non-believers of your faith to be uncivilized, dumb, unenlightened, etc.

How many atheists run volatile countries?

Most theists running around killing other theists are doing it for land, money, power. I think it highly unlikely that they have all truly been believers in their faith.

[RedRedemption]

Originally Posted by justtxyank How many atheists run volatile countries? Most theists running around killing other theists are doing it for land, money, power. I think it highly unlikely that they have all truly been believers in their faith.

True. The ringleaders of all this murder and corruption are just using religion as a medium, however religion creates a massive amount of blind followers that are willing to do the dirty work and kill. Nearly all religions leave little room for free will and conscientious thought. Faith they call it; its really just masked ignorance.

[Mathloom]

So what you're saying is that Egyptians' wishes are a nuissance to your interests in their region. Nice.

Let's see:

- Only people who are from their majority religion and go to mosque have a chance.
- They are leaning towards those who are claiming that they will provide more security.
- Must speak the language of war.
- Must go back on campaign promises.
- They are leaning towards the parties with most money.
- Those politicians are making subtle threats to perceived enemies of their ideology.
- The "Defense" institution is most powerful, richest, determines all.

"Those crazy theists! Why can't they be llike us??"

lol You guys are hilarious. Egypt can vote idiots into government, who cares. They are not a threat to countries around them because their military receives billions in funding from you guys to maintain a peace treaty with the only country in the region anyone in the region has a problem with. This is their choice and it will affect them only, and the military will make sure your wishes are protected. It is now a democracy within the boundaries prescribed by yourselves, whereas it used to be a shamocracy within yours and Hosni's boundaries.

Look at yourselves, you are electing war-mongers to a government that engage in international warfare with anyone who disturbs your hegemony and imperiaism. This is after how many decades of democracy, the best education, excllent standard of living, multicultural population. All your candidates want war, legally or illegally, with your permission or without. You fight for human rights abroad, side by side with countries which murder their own people. Have you ever considered how much of a "nuissance" your wishes are to so many people in the region where you are protecting your interests?

http://10.60.0.199:8080/progress?pag...ZWxoYW1p&foo=2

.. and you are fully aware why public opinion is staggeringly different than the opinions of the individual countries.

You guys should've focused on the OP.

[vaids_13]

Originally Posted by JuanValdez Egypt's probably in for a lot of turmoil for a long time. You don't have a revolution and go to a peaceful representative democracy in a day. The US had a revolution and couldn't abolish slavery until 100 years later. France had a revolution and couldn't even persist in a democracy until 100 years later. Russia cast off the tsar and 100 years later they still don't have a true democracy. Obviously, no country is going to ever be perfect. But, even to reach an acceptable minimum of democracy and civil rights after throwing off an establishment of authoritarian government and oppression takes multiple generations. I'm not saying injustice in Egypt is okay, nor that we can't expect better. I am saying that making facile explanations about the oppression of Islam ignores what we see historically about how hard it is for any culture to make the transformation we want Egypt to make.

Agreed. I think what you're going to see Egypt transition into over the course of the next decade or so is something that parallels more closely with 19th century/early 20th century America that had an extremely weak central government that couldnt protect minority communities against mobs from majority communities (white v. black violence, catholic v. protestant, anti-immigrant violence, etc.).