On old knees post-knee surgery at 300lbs 35 years old against 25 year old Kareem. His hops were obviously effected at that age and yet he swats 2 skyhooks back to back. If that doesn't say something about his length than I don't know what will, I already provided his measurements up above for anyone who hasn't seen it - all of his measurements would individually practically be draftexpress.com/measurements NBA draft records. His flat footed reach is only 1/4" away from Yao Mings and with his young vertical leap he would have probably been maximum-reaching higher perhaps than any player in NBA history
End thread. jopatmc, give it up. Everything you have said has regarding Wilt has been constantly debunked (his size, his competition, etc) and it seems like you are very ignorant of that era (makes sense as most of us are, but for some reason you are adamant that you aren't).
Wilt dominated in a different era statistically. He would be a dominant player today, would give you similar statistics to Hakeem or Shaq in their prime. But no franchise besides a perennial doormat would allow him to chew up over 50 possessions a game just to average 50 ppg. It just wouldn't happen. Because it's not how you win basketball games. Yes, he was a dominant player in an era where there were no other dominant players at his position besides Russell and Russell was dominant with a team. He would be dominant today alongside about 20 other players including Dwight, Lebron, etc. It was a different era.
The reigning NBA champion Dallas Mavericks let Dirk score 21 points on 20 possessions (using the same FGA+.5FTA metric that you seem to be using). Wilt was scoring 50 on 48 possessions, and provided much more defense and rebounding and fewer long rebounds for the opposition. The Lakers this season scored 97 ppg on 104 possessions (again, using the same metric) the Heat 98 on 103. Seems like either of those teams would like Wilt scoring 50 on 48.
Wow... you went out on a limb. The entire way the game has changed since the 60s is that the game became less of a big man game and more of a guard/forward game. With 8-12 teams the league could fill every roster with so many HOF big men that often times they paired 2 together on one team and forced the other to play PF (this was when the league was 9 teams before they finally expanded to 12). For example Chamberlain and Thurmond, or Bellamy and Reed. The Equivilent is literally like Prime Shaq and Zo being forced to play together with 1 swinging to PF or David Robinson and Hakeem Olajuwon and all because there wasn't even enough teams to go around to spread these guys out. The game was a big mans game in Wilt's era he was not facing small or untalented players at all where the hell would you even come up with that idea? Some teenagers at your local playground tell u that? Listen to GM's like Jerry West or Al Attles talk about how the league changed, once the league expanded to a certain point big men actually came in short supply and the entire rules and structure of the league had to be opened up for small men to dominate. A Joel Anthony, or a Ryan Hollins would not even be in the leagues in the 60's - the scrubs from the 60's look A LOT better on film than some of the stiffs today. I'm not saying the 60's as a whole was a better era of talent than today (it lacked small man depth in comparison to today), but by all means the 60's was a better big-man era than today. Walt Bellamy. Nate Thurmond. Bill Russell. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Reed. Bob Lanier. Wayne Embry. I'm not gonna bother posting pics of every beast Wilt was up against but there's a lot more and these are all just off the top of my head: Elvin Hayes Zelmo Beaty Luc Jackson Bill Bridges Jerry Lucas Dave Cowens I could go on and on with perhaps 20 centers Wilt faced that are all better than the starting centers of 20 teams in today's 30 team NBA and those guys all played in a smaller league. Half a dozen HOF'ers of Wilt's era are convincingly better than this league's current top 3 centers. in 1972 I believe, there were more HOF centers in the league than any other season in league history - and it was only a 17 team league. Seriously man, of all the things to critique why would you resort to critiquing big-man talent of that era!?
Everyone he played against was 6-8 or taller. And this was before they added a couple of inches to everyone's height. Plus its only 7 opponents he played against. No one he played against was 6 to 8 inches shorter than Wilt. 3 of the 7 teams had a hall of fame big man. So 42% of the time he was playing a hall of famer. Boston Celtics, Bill Russell, 6-9, 215, 45 mp, HOF Syracuse Nationals, Red Kerr, 6-9, 230, 35 mp Syracuse Nationals, Swede Halbrook, 7-3, 235, 14 mp New York Knicks, Phil Jordan, 6-10, 205, 29 mp New York Knicks, Darrall Imhoff, 6-10, 220, 20 mp Los Angeles Lakers, Jim Krebs, 6-8, 230, 26 mp Los Angeles Lakers, Ray Felix, 6-11, 220, 18 mp Cincinnati Royals, Wayne Embry, 6-8, 240, 35 mp Cincinnati Royals, Hub Reed, 6-9, 215, 18 mp Detroit Pistons, Walter Dukes, 7-0, 220, 25 mp Detroit Pistons, Bob Ferry, 6-8, 230, 24 mp St. Louis Hawks, Bob Pettit, 6-9, 205, 42 mp, HOF St. Louis Hawks, Clyde Lovellette, 6-9, 235, 29 mp Chicago Packers, Walt Bellamy, 6-11, 225, 42 mp, HOF
80% of Wilt's career was spent playing against guys 6-8 inches shorter than he was and 30-40 lbs lighter than him.
You are a troll . I showed the starters and back-ups from the one season you picked, 1961-62. Wilt is 7'1". Not one guy that Wilt played against that year was more than 5 inches shorter than he was. The fact is that 0% of the starting centers in '61 were 6 to 8 inches shorter than Wilt, and I doubt any of the other years were much different.
You are a r****d. 80% of the minutes Wilt played he played against relative shrimps to himself. Deal with it. Hakeem would have averaged 60 or more during 1962 getting over 50 possessions a game. Deal with it. Wilt was a great player. But he would not dominate the game today in any way, shape, or form like he dominated it in the decade of the 60's. Conversely, if Hakeem had played in that era, his numbers would be greater than Wilt's simply because he could shoot free throws and there would have been NO answer for him, not even putting him on the line.
Some truly idiotic posts in this thread. Wilt Chamberlain would absolutely dominate the mediocre C positon of the NBA today. Wilt played a prime Kareem as an old man and MORE than held his own. Kareem played a prime Hakeem as an old man and MORE than held his own. Hakeem played a prime Shaq and raped him in the butthole. Shaq was a dominant force, as was Yao for a short time. Yao, the one who dominated Dwight Howard, the best C in the league. It all connects, it all runs together. Wilt, Kareem, Dream, Shaq & Yao would all DOMINATE the NBA today.
Anyone that is against Wilt being a dominant, yearly allstar in today's NBA, frankly, has not watched enough Wilt. His turnaround off the glass, his finger roll down the middle... Unstoppable force with some of the greatest, revolutionary big man moves that guys have since tried to copy...
Complete list of player heights from the NBA 1961-1962 season, when Wilt scored 50.4ppg. From starters down to the last bench player. Direct comparison with barefoot measurements displayed on Draft Express of all the collective players per-position from 1989-present (via this tool): http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre...ge=avepos&year=All&source=All&draft=100&sort=... Listed exclusively as Guards (So let's call them the Point Guards: Bob Cousy G 6-1 K.C. Jones G 6-1 Gary Phillips G 6-3 Al Attles G 6-0 York Larese G 6-4 Guy Rodgers G 6-0 Al Bianchi G 6-3 Larry Costello G 6-1 Paul Neumann G 6-1 George Blaney G 6-1 Donnie Butcher G 6-2 Al Butler G 6-2 Richie Guerin G 6-4 Whitey Martin G 6-2 Sam Stith G 6-2 Hot Rod Hundley G 6-4 Bob McNeill G 6-1 Bobby Smith G 6-4 Jerry West G 6-2 Bucky Bockhorn G 6-4 Adrian Smith G 6-1 Dave Zeller G 6-1 Johnny Egan G 5-11 Willie Jones G 6-3 Chuck Noble G 6-4 Don Ohl G 6-3 Gene Shue G 6-2 Jimmy Darrow G 5-10 Dick Eichhorst G 6-3 Vern Hatton G 6-3 Cleo Hill G 6-1 Johnny McCarthy G 6-1 Lenny Wilkens G 6-1 Howie Carl G 5-9 Ralph Davis G 6-4 York Larese G 6-4 Slick Leonard G 6-3 1961-62 Season, 37 active, avg = 6-1.89" 1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 93) avg = 6-1.02" (Point guards of that season averaged over 3/4 of an inch taller than modern point guards of 1989-present) Listed as Guard/Forwards (So let's call them the Shooting Guards): Carl Braun G-F 6-5 Sam Jones G-F 6-4 Frank Ramsey F-G 6-3 Paul Arizin F-G 6-4 Ed Conlin F-G 6-5 Tom Gola G-F 6-6 Hal Greer G-F 6-2 Bill Smith G-F 6-5 Frank Selvy G-F 6-3 Oscar Robertson G-F 6-5 Jack Twyman F-G 6-6 George Lee F-G 6-4 Jackie Moreland F-G 6-7 Al Ferrari G-F 6-4 Si Green G-F 6-2 Cliff Hagan F-G 6-4 Fred LaCour G-F 6-5 Bob Sims G-F 6-5 Andy Johnson F-G 6-5 Jack Turner G-F 6-5 1961-62 Season, 20 active, avg = 6-4.45" 1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 90) avg = 6-3.76" (Shooting guards of that season average over half an inch taller than shooting guards of 1989-present) Listed strictly as Forwards (So let's call them the Small Forwards): Gene Guarilia F 6-5 Jim Loscutoff F 6-5 Tom Sanders F 6-6 Ted Luckenbill F 6-6 Tom Meschery F 6-6 Frank Radovich F 6-8 Dave Gambee F 6-6 Joe Roberts F 6-6 Chuck Osborne F 6-6 Lee Shaffer F 6-7 Dave Budd F 6-6 Ed Burton F 6-6 Doug Kistler F 6-9 Elgin Baylor F 6-5 Tom Hawkins F 6-5 Bob Boozer F 6-8 Joe Buckhalter F 6-7 Bob Wiesenhahn F 6-4 Bailey Howell F 6-7 Shellie McMillon F 6-5 S. Arceneaux F 6-4 Horace Walker F 6-3 Barney Cable F 6-7 Ron Horn F 6-7 George Bon S. F 6-8 1961-62 Season, 25 active, avg = 6-6.08" 1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 91) avg = 6-6.40" (The average small forward height of that season is only 1/3rd of an inch less than the average small forwards drafted between 1989-present) Listed as Forward/Centers (So let's call them the Power Forwards): Tom Heinsohn F-C 6-7 Joe Ruklick F-C 6-9 Joe Graboski F-C 6-7 Red Kerr C-F 6-9 Dolph Schayes F-C 6-7 C. Buckner F-C 6-9 Johnny Green F-C 6-5 Phil Jordon C-F 6-10 Willie Naulls F-C 6-6 Howie Jolliff F-C 6-7 Jim Krebs C-F 6-8 Rudy LaRusso F-C 6-7 Wayne Embry C-F 6-8 Hub Reed C-F 6-9 Bob Ferry C-F 6-8 Ray Scott F-C 6-9 Larry Foust C-F 6-9 Clyde Lovellette C-F 6-9 Bob Pettit F-C 6-9 W. Sauldsberry F-C 6-7 Archie Dees F-C 6-8 Joe Graboski F-C 6-7 Dave Piontek F-C 6-6 Charlie Tyra C-F 6-8 1961-62 Season, 24 active, avg = 6-7.83" 1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 127) avg = 6-7.95" (The power forwards average height that season is negligible in comparison with all modern power forwards from 1989-present... less than 1/8th of an inch) Players listed exclusively as Centers: Bill Russell C 6-9 (1/2) Wilt Chamberlain C 7-1 (1/16) Swede Halbrook C 7-3 Darrall Imhoff C 6-10 Ray Felix C 6-11 Wayne Yates C 6-8 Bevo Nordmann C 6-10 Walter Dukes C 7-0 Walt Bellamy C 6-11 1961-1962 Season, 9 active, avg = 6-11.06" (6-10.81" excluding Wilt) 1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 67) avg = 6-10.44" (Centers of that season averaged over 1/4 of an inch taller than modern centers, and that is if we exclude Wilt - the difference is more than 1/2 an inch if we included him) *nomenclature of PF/SF/SG/PG had not yet been made so the players pulling double-duties swinging between 2 positions can roughly be categorized as similar to SG's and PF's. So, if Wilt was playing against fully modern height centers while scoring 50.4ppg I think you'd better look for some other things to try and criticize because your going way out on a limb. You've tried to criticize center talent and now your trying to criticize center size of his era but both are way off from reality. Splitting hairs here because it's near as makes no difference, but technically that '62 season's centers averaged a smidge taller than the modern collective avg. So seriously, where are you getting any of your information about "6-8 inches shorter" centers? You drawing numbers out of a hat? Research > assumptions
He would dominate today, but not on the level that he dominated in the 60's. Today, he would be one of a group of dominant players. And Hakeem would dominate the 60's greater than Wilt did because of his ability to hit free throws. If you put Hakeem back in the 60's with over 50 possessions a game, he'd average over 60.
There is nobody in todays NBA who could handle Wilt Chamberlain. Maybe in the 90's? He might have had trouble then. Today? The centers are not there.
Sitting here watching Tim Duncan. He's probably the equivalent of Bill Russell. Yeah, I know. Throw up all Russell's rebounding numbers. But the truth is if Duncan were playing in the 60's, he'd have the same rings Russell had and the same boards with probably more points. He's that good. He's still that good.
