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Iraq Withdrawal: McCain or McFlopper Extraordinaire

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by A_3PO, May 15, 2008.

  1. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    I knew McCain would modify his position as we moved from the GOP primary to the general election, but WOW! :eek: He sure didn't waste any time. I'm glad to hear this but the suddenness kinda leaves me cynical. Looks like he's tacking just to Obama's right so he can defuse the issue with the general populice without alienating the right-wing too much.

    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/05/15/mccain_outlines_troop_withdraw.html?hpid=topnews

    JOHN MCCAIN
    McCain Outlines Troop Withdrawal Hopes

    By Michael D. Shear
    COLUMBUS,Ohio, MAY 15--Sen. John McCain will pledge today that most American troops will return home from Iraq by 2013 if he is elected president, a position that closely resembles the promises made by both of his potential Democratic rivals.

    In a speech here this morning, McCain will say that only a small contingent of troops would remain in Iraq in non-combat roles beyond that date. He predicts that the drawdown will be possible because al Qaeda in Iraq will be defeated and a democratic government will be able to thrive in the war-torn country.

    Excerpts of the speech to be given at the Greater Columbus Convention Center were released this morning.

    McCain has repeatedly resisted offering a timeline for withdrawal of U.S. troops, saying that to do so would be tantamount to giving terrorists a timeline for defeat. During the Florida primary, McCain was withering in his criticism of former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney for what he said was support of a withdrawal timeline.

    Just last month, McCain said that "To promise a withdrawal of our forces from Iraq, regardless of the calamitous consequences to the Iraqi people, our most vital interests, and the future of the Middle East, is the height of irresponsibility. It is a failure of leadership.''

    But in the speech excerpts, McCain describes in detail the "conditions I intend to achieve" by the time his first term in office ends. He says he will "focus all the powers of the office; every skill and strength I possess," to make that future a reality.

    "By January 2013," the speech says, "America has welcomed home most of the servicemen and women who have sacrificed terribly so that America might be secure in her freedom. The Iraq War has been won."

    By that time, the speech says, "the United States maintains a military presence there, but a much smaller one, and it does not play a direct combat role."

    Asked to make a similar pledge during a debate last September, Democratic Sen. Barack Obama declined, saying that "it's hard to project four years from now and I think it would be irresponsible. We don't know what contingency will be out there."

    But more recently, Obama has said he will remove all combat brigades from Iraq within 16 months of becoming president and will leave "some troops" in Iraq to protect U.S. embassy personnel there and carry out targeted strikes on terrorists.

    Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said during the same debate last year that it was her "goal" to have all of the U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2013, though more recently she has said she would begin a phased withdrawal immediately.

    In the speech today, McCain describes the America he hopes will exist after four years of his administration.

    In that future America, he promises that taxes are lower, congressional earmarks are eliminated and robust economic growth has returned. He promises a new international "League of Democracies" that will have stopped the genocide in Darfur. He promises that construction will have begun on 20 new nuclear plants and that there will be a free-market plan to reduce greenhouse gasses. And he promises to have secured the country's southern border and offered a temporary worker program to illegal immigrants.

    To accomplish those goals, McCain pledges cooperation with Democrats, saying that he will "listen to any idea that is offered in good faith and intended to help solve our problems, not make them worse."

    In the speech, McCain disavows "signing statements" often used by President Bush to alter the implementation of laws, saying that "I will not subvert the purpose of legislation I have signed by making statements that indicate I will enforce only the parts of it I like."

    And McCain says he will ask Congress to hold regular Q & A sessions with him, much like the feisty exchanges that take place regularly between the British Prime Minister and members of the House of Commons.
     
  2. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    I don't care if he flop flops. As long as he is sincere about getting troops out I have no issue.
     
  3. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    I agree with this, but I'd like to see a date sooner than 2013. The "Murray Sabrin pledge" is to bring all the troops home from by July 2010. I'd personally give it until 2011, but that's good.
     
  4. bucket

    bucket Member

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    That's probably how the media will spin it, too.
     
  5. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Hmm... wonder if Barakakis will continue to repeat his dishonest criticism of McCain wanting to stay in Iraq for 100 years? McCain just outmaneuvered Barakakis in a major way here, folks. This takes Barakakis' main issue (his pseudo-disagreement on entering Iraq) away from him.

    OUTFLANKED
     
  6. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    It would be pretty easy for the 527 groups to run ads showing maccaine saying staying for as long as it takes even 100 years and then another clip saying we will be out of Iraq by end of his first term and then ask do you trust this guy? :p
     
  7. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    McCain has flip flopped on so many issues, it's hard to keep count.
     
  8. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    It's because he's a maverick. Or a senile doofus. Or a duplicitous weasel.

    I'd argue it's none of the above. McCain is just trying desperately to dissociate himself with the resident GOP cluster****.
     
  9. bucket

    bucket Member

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    Perhaps, if by "outflanked" you mean, "conceded the major point of contention in this year's election.
     
  10. yaoluv

    yaoluv Member

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    Sounds like this is the key point... Mccain is saying of course we will be able to withdraw by 2013 because al qaeda will be defeated by then

    I don't want to be a negative nancy, but somehow I doubt that will happen
    and in 2013 he will move the timetable to 2018
     
  11. Nolen

    Nolen Member

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    It's the wishy-washy metrics of "success" that allow this to go on and on and on.

    Back in the good old days you defeated the bad guys, they surrendered, you signed an accord for terms of surrender and peace, move on. You have a winner and a loser.

    Guerrilla warfare is just messy and there are no clear metrics that we are "winning" or that we will "win" at some point in the future. How can we claim that we will defeat AQ in Iraq when we haven't done it in five years of battle so far? Their recruitment is up and shows no sign of slowing. It's naive to think we'll just kill all of them and then it will be over.

    There are quotes from both Bush and McCain every year or six months saying "just a little longer" again and again and again. And this is another one.
     
  12. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member
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    I'll take a flip flopping sincere person over a stubborn LIAR any day.
     
  13. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    I assume everyone here accepting of his flip flopping as sincere voted for kerry in 2004, right?
     
  14. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    There were 1000s of better reasons than flip flopping to not vote for John Kerry.
     
  15. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    There were 10000s reasons to not vote for Bush, but that didn't stop people from putting him in office again.
     
  16. thegary

    thegary Member

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    whatever, obama is gonna trounce him in the general.
     
  17. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    I assume you did not vote then. Otherwise your logic might be subject to rather intense scrutiny.
     
  18. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    I made a statement vote. I was one of the 0.3% Michael Badnarik vote.
     
  19. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    Well done.
     
  20. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    Maybe. I don't think anyone heard my statement. Or at least anyone that counts.
     

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