[Official] Reggie Bush or Someone else -- Vince Young out of running

Remember teams passed over McNair and McNabb because of many of the concerns said about Vince Young. They were sorely mistaken, underrating those players potential and overrating those they drafted instead.

The nature of the draft is that it is a crapshoot, it is quite rare if never happens where the NFL draft has a prospect like Magic, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq or Lebron where everyone knows they will be greatly successfull (and remember Ralph Sampson, as can't miss as anyone coming out of college, was largely a flop).

One could quite reasonably argue there is a 25% Bush will be the best player from this draft, 20% Vince Young will be the best player, 10% Williams, 10% Leinart, 10% Dbrick, 5% Hawk, 5% Davis or 15% someone else. (Note. I personally would have VY 1st among these players as likelihood for greatest NFL impact, but understand the case for Bush as well). So yes, 99% of them could be leaning that Bush is the safest pro prospect and thus top rated prospect, but that has little bearing to the likelihood Bush really will be the best player or the gem of this draft class. History will tell the foresight of the drafting teams at the top, foremost the Texans, not whether xx% of scouts think Bush is the safest pick coming into the draft.

 

Bush will sell jerseys and tickets...Do we need a RB, I don't think so, especially with the new scheme...We have DD and JM to return kicks...Can he help, yes, but there are questions with everyone coming out of college...

Bush is the safe pick, but Vince has more potential and will have the ball in his hands every play (See McNair and McNabb)...

 

Yeah you're right. We haven't seen other teams draftboards so we can't speculate at all. Heck, maybe fat LenDale White is #1 on every team's draft board.

 

Of course there are no guarantees. Of course history will be the last judge. But as of now Reggie is the best prospect, that's why he'll probably be the top pick, unless contract talk gets in the way.

 

It's possible, but not likely. Who cares though?

Your logic implodes itself even if its true.

Your position is that bush is "by far" the better prospect and that the gap is "not small", but yet your support for this is that 99% have him #1.

So what? Let's say Bush grades out at a 9.999 on a 10 point scale, and Vince grades out at 9.998. Further, let's say that 100% of people believe this.

By your logic, Bush is "by far" the better prospect by a wide margin.

By my logic, he's the better prospect by .001, which is a "small gap".

 

Hell, they're both great prospects, and more than likely, they'll both be somewhere other than Houston if 1) Bush contract talks get in the way and 2) we trade down and miss or pass on Vince...

 

Tom McShay from Scouts Inc. this morning said on ESPN Radio he feels that there is a 50/50 chance the Saints trade down with the Raiders on draft day. The pick for the Raiders will be VY because Al Davis is enamored with him.

 

i heard that ....which means ultimately:

bush goes first
VY goes second

and the debate never stops.

 

VY should still be available at #7, why trade down? :

 

Or, if Oakland moves up to #2, then that opens the door for the Texans to move to #4 and grab Mario Williams.

 

the titans are reportedly very interested in VY at 3.

 

Vy got a 6... perhaps. But nothing VY did approaches this sort of dishonesty.
I'm disgusted.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_y...c5nYcB?slug=cr-bush042306&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Reggie Bush's family home
By Charles Robinson, Yahoo! Sports
April 23, 2006

Charles Robinson
Yahoo! Sports Exclusive
SPRING VALLEY, Calif. – In this sprawling hilltop community with a breathtaking view of Sweetwater Lake, it was no secret who lived in the 3,000-square-foot house at the corner of Apple Street and Luther Avenue.

That home, residents would tell you, was where Reggie Bush's family lived.

That is, until this weekend, when the family abruptly packed up and vacated the residence – less than 24 hours after Yahoo! Sports approached Bush's mother about information linking the property to Michael Michaels, a man who is alleged to have tried to play a role in steering Bush toward an agent and who also has ties to a sports marketing company.

Days before Bush is expected to be the No. 1 pick in the NFL draft, unanswered questions about the residence and how his mother, stepfather and brother came to live in it within the last year have prompted the University of Southern California to refer the matter to the Pacific-10 Conference for an investigation.

NCAA statutes prohibit student-athletes or their families from receiving extra benefits from professional sports agents, marketing companies or their representatives. A breach of these statutes could result in an athlete being ruled ineligible, and games in which they played could be forfeited.

USC finished 12-1 last season, its 35-game winning streak and national championship bid both ending with a loss in the Rose Bowl to Texas. Bush, a junior running back, won the Heisman Trophy and elected to skip his senior season and turn pro in January.

In response to reporters' questions about the matter late last week, USC athletic department officials said they would look into it.

"Rather than jumping to conclusions, we need to determine the facts before commenting on this report," Trojans athletic director Mike Garrett said in a statement released by the school on Friday. "We have asked the Pac-10 to look into this."

State records show the Apple Street home was built in late 2004 and early 2005, then purchased by Michaels on March 29, 2005 for $757,500. Around that time, neighbors say Bush's family moved in. Whether they had visited the house while it was being built is unknown, but there is an inscription in one of the cement slabs in the driveway reading "The Griffins '05."

Michaels is the only person who has been listed on the deed to the home.

Bush's mother, Denise Griffin, was approached in the driveway of the house on Thursday, but declined to comment.

"I have absolutely nothing to say," Griffin said when asked about ownership of the property, which is where Bush's mother, stepfather LaMar and brother Jovan lived during USC's 2005 season.

Before moving to the house on Apple Lane, Bush's family was listed as living in an apartment elsewhere in Spring Valley, a community located about 13 miles east of San Diego.

At some point after Bush's family moved into the residence, Michaels and an associate named Lloyd Lake are said to have contacted San Diego-based sports agent David Caravantes and offered to facilitate Bush's recruitment. A source with intimate knowledge of the meeting said it took place during the 2005 college football season and that Michaels was looking for a local agent to handle the contract negotiations for players he intended to sign to his marketing firm.

Michaels and Lake told Caravantes they were planning to start a sports marketing agency with Bush as their anchor client. It was also during this meeting that Michaels and Lake mentioned the potential name of the agency: New Era Sports & Entertainment.

The pitch to Caravantes was said to have been simple: He would be Bush's agent and Michaels' marketing creation would handle the promotion of the USC star. At some point after pitching this idea, Michaels informed Caravantes that Bush's family was living in a home Michaels owned. Caravantes isn't believed to have met with Bush and was never considered to be in the mix before the USC star hired Reebok adviser Mike Ornstein and agent Joel Segal of Worldwide Football Inc. as his representatives.

Repeated attempts to reach Segal and Bush were unsuccessful.

While it's unclear what official role Michaels played in New Era Sports, indications are that the company barely got off the ground – if at all. According to corporation filings in California, paperwork for New Era Sports & Entertainment was drawn up on Nov. 23, 2005, and records list the business address in Los Angeles under an attorney named Phillip M. Smith Jr.

Contacted late last week, Smith Jr. refused to talk about New Era Sports – even declining to give public details such as a phone number for the company, where the New Era offices were located or who was serving as the company's current president or manager.

Asked why he wouldn't provide such information, Smith ended the brief telephone conversation, saying, "That's really not an issue that I want to deal with." He has failed to return multiple follow-up messages left at his office.

Further attempts to identify New Era produced a single web page with a company logo (http://newerasports.tv/) that contains no active links to indicate where New Era is located, what services are provided or how the company could be contacted. Searches also produced the internet blogs of three self-proclaimed employees of New Era Sports. One such blog included the company logo of New Era and pictures of several NFL players. That blog was taken down shortly after Yahoo! Sports obtained a hard-copy of the page.

Contacted about his alleged meeting with Michaels, Caravantes declined to comment.

Michaels – who is a member of the Sycuan Indian Tribe and works as a business development officer for the tribe's development corporation – failed to return multiple phone calls and was unavailable when Yahoo! Sports visited his home on three occasions this weekend.

The Sycuan tribe, which owns a casino and resort and is engaged in a number of business enterprises in the San Diego area, denied any knowledge of Michaels' relationship with the Bush family.

"The tribe is not aware of his involvement," said spokesman Adam Day, who had been approved to speak for the Sycuan's tribal government. "Any involvement that he has in this situation is his personal involvement. It has no connection or correlation to the tribe, its businesses or Mike's employment by the tribal development corporation.

"What tribal members do on their own time is their own business. It's not the business of the tribe."

Back at the house on Apple Street on Saturday afternoon, the moving trucks had come and gone. A flier offering cleaning services for movers was hung on the front door, and all the shades had been drawn shut. Through a garage window, only a few empty cardboard boxes and straggling trinkets were visible.

Across the street, neighbor Grant Sitton could only shrug.

"I don't know, I guess it didn't work out," Sitton said. "Oh well. They have a big payday coming next week anyway."

 

WOW. Thanks for the article. I kinda lose hope we'll get Vince in the draft 'cuz the Texans' website is all over Bush in their "NFL Drat" pages flash animation on their main page.

Check out page 11 of today's SPORTS section in the Chronicle. It's a well thought out "Draft VINCE YOUNG" petition. It's not mine, BTW.

 

6 days left. 6 days left.

 

Is this new?

Good article on how the Texans will be making the biggest mistake of their franchise history by not drafting Young.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/060421&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab4pos2

Catch a Falling Star, Houston!

By Skip Bayless
Page 2

Houston, you have a prob- … yeah, you know where I'm going.

Seriously though. Your Texans have looked a gift horse in the mouth -- a Pegasus who could take them over the rainbow -- and said, "Yeah, but … "

Vince Young
Eric Gay/AP Photo
Vince Young's delivery may be a little funky -- but that won't stop him from becoming a huge star.

Apparently, your Texans have been working extremely hard talking themselves out of taking Vince Young -- who hails from Houston, of all places -- with the draft's No. 1 pick. Your only consolation? It sounds as if your Texans aren't alone. Many more teams seem to be preparing to make the same mistake.

Heck, the way the NFL works on draft day -- monkey see, monkey don't -- Young could slide the way Aaron Rodgers did last year. Once the 49ers, picking first, considered Rodgers but opted for Alex Smith, team after team had a building excuse to pass on Rodgers … who finally went 24th to Green Bay.

Then again, comparing Vince Young with Aaron Rodgers is like putting Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf in the same sentence.

Young will turn out to be by far the most valuable player -- and leader -- in this draft. (For the record, I wrote a year ago that Cadillac Williams would be the best player in the draft, and Tampa Bay stole him with the fifth pick.) If Texans owner Bob McNair doesn't overrule his football decision-makers and insist on taking Young, this franchise will regret it for a long, long time.

Here lie the Texans, who passed on hometown product and Hall of Famer Vince Young.

Houston, your football team's front office is looking like the dumbest bunch of Texans this side of a Bush skit on "Saturday Night Live." And I don't mean the Bush the Texans probably will take: USC's Reggie.

Several league sources say general manager Charley Casserly will be fired after the draft for all the poor decisions he made in building this expansion team. Texans sources say Casserly has threatened to quit -- as if he doesn't deserve to be doubted after a 2-14 season. Yet Casserly remains in charge of making what could be the most crucial decision in team history!

Well, at least new coach Gary Kubiak probably wants the media to believe Casserly has final say. That way, Kubiak can blame a long-gone Casserly if Young turns out to be much better than the player the Texans take. Kubiak has told sources around the league that he's a "Vince guy," but Casserly has been a "Reggie guy" from the start.

For sure, that's what Casserly has been telling media members since the Texans "won" the first pick. And every move Casserly and Kubiak have made through the offseason has all but screamed, "We're taking Reggie!"

They exercised the $8 million option to keep former No. 1 pick David Carr from becoming a free agent. That could have allowed them to trade Carr, who has the tools and potential to perhaps have brought a first-round pick in return. Instead, the Texans dedicated themselves to making Carr a success by giving him the weapons and blockers he hasn't had.

They acquired receiver Eric Moulds, which was a very good move, and tight end Jeb Putzier, which wasn't bad. Now Carr will have three receiving options beyond developing stud Andre Johnson. If he's doubled, Carr can look for Moulds or Putzier … or Reggie Bush.

Don't get me wrong -- Bush will be a Pro Bowl back. But Vince Young will be an MVP -- especially if he's allowed to strap his hometown team on his back and carry it into the playoffs.

Carr isn't anywhere near a bust, but he doesn't belong in the same breath with Young. He isn't a leader, a winner, a franchise changer. So it's amusing to hear the Texans (and other teams) say, "We already have a quarterback." Yes -- but you don't have Young.

Vince Young
Dave Einsel/AP Photo
Teams shouldn't be all that worried about Vince's extracurricular activities.

Sure, if Casserly is allowed to make -- or at least influence -- this monumental decision, he'll push to build around the quarterback he staked his reputation on in Houston. He'll reach for every excuse not to take Young -- and there are many. Many teams have Matt Leinart rated above Young, which is absurd.

Leinart -- not Jay Cutler -- is this draft's most overrated quarterback. More on that next week.

But here's the punch line in Houston: The Texans have worked so hard to talk themselves out of Young that they're now talking themselves into North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams. Huh?

No doubt this could be a negotiating ploy. The Texans didn't have a visit scheduled with Williams until after their first sit-down with Bush's agent, Joel Segal, who obviously expressed some jaw-dropping contractual wishes. Still, the Texans aren't the only team falling head-over-better-judgment in love with the 6-foot-7, 295-pound Williams.

Baaa! go the NFL sheep. If one team expresses awe over a player, others begin to see greatness that simply isn't there.

In all my years following NFL drafts, I cannot remember a player rising so far so fast so late. Several sources say the Texans' fascination with Williams goes beyond merely threatening to take him if Segal won't ease off his demands. The Texans are genuinely considering him.

Mario Williams doesn't belong in the same paragraph with Vince Young.

The best thing Williams has going for him is that Julius Peppers played down Tobacco Road at North Carolina, and Williams and Peppers have one thing in common. They're both basketball tall. That's about it.

Otherwise, Williams doesn't belong in the same zip code with Peppers. When I watched Peppers in college, he jumped off my screen. When I watched Williams' 7-5 NC State team, he didn't once catch my eye.

An independent NFL scout who was assigned to three NC State games told me: "If they hadn't told me to watch Williams, I wouldn't have noticed him."

This new emperor doesn't have nearly enough clothes to go in the first five picks, let alone No. 1.

But no doubt the Texans have comforted themselves with the growing dirty laundry list of Young's negatives. He had a poor initial score on the NFL's intelligence test. He's represented by a Houston lawyer who's a family friend with only one previous NFL client. He could be distracted by too many family members and friends if he played in Houston.

Word is that Young has already bought four cars, and that he has already started charging for his autograph. He wore jeans when his national champ Texas Longhorns visited the White House. He has gone a little too Hollywood, making appearances at Houston's NBA All-Star Game, the Astros' opener and with Andy Roddick at a tennis exhibition.

He has an unorthodox below-the-ear flip of a delivery. He played almost exclusively in a shotgun offense at Texas. I could go on, but not one of these knocks scares me about a player who obviously scares old-guard NFL executives and coaches to death.

They don't know quite what to make of Young because, quite simply, there's never been anyone quite like him. He's not Randall Cunningham, or Doug Williams, Michael Vick or Donovan McNabb.

He's simply Jordanesque.

Conventional NFL evaluators should quit thinking of him as a quarterback and just consider him a playmaker. An igniter. A moneyback, with a guarantee.

A coach (and former NFL player) whose team is picking in the middle of the first round attended Young's pro day workout and looked past the delivery to the intangibles.

He said: "You can see why other players will follow this kid. He has this undeniable presence, this incredible confidence, this swagger.

"You can't call him Michael Jordan, but he's made of the same stuff. Jordan came into the league without a picture-perfect jump shot, so he said, 'Watch this,' and he taught himself to shoot. You can tell this kid will do whatever it takes to prove everyone who doubted him wrong."

Jordan, remember, went third in the draft.

Vince Young
Chris Carlson/AP Photo
When Young takes off in the open field, there's no one like him.

Now all the Texans need to do is block out everything and look at the tapes. They do not lie.

Look at the last two Rose Bowls, and last season's Texas at Ohio State game. At 6-5 and nearly 240 pounds, Young is so big, so strong, so durable and so much quicker than he appears to be that even Ohio State's defense, which will have four first-round picks, couldn't keep him from buying time and picking them apart with every kind of pass he needed to throw.

They don't look pretty leaving his hand. But focus on the results. They spiral. They have zip and they have touch. They're virtually always aimed at the most open receiver, and invariably they're on target.

Most importantly, Young is a pass-first quarterback. He takes off only when his receivers are covered -- as he did on the 8-yard touchdown bolt that beat USC in the national championship game.

Young outgunned a USC offense that could have five first-round picks this draft. Young ran championship rings around the best defensive coach in college football, Pete Carroll, who had almost six weeks to prepare.

Two years ago, Young told Texas coach Mack Brown, a perennial big-game loser, to just let Young be himself and everything would be OK. And Young took Brown on a magic carpet ride that saved and made the coach's career. That's what he'll do for some lucky NFL coach.

If New Orleans passes on Young, that will be a huge mistake. Ditto for the team that once lived in Houston -- the Titans -- if they let offensive coordinator Norm Chow talk them into the quarterback he coached at USC: Leinart. And for the Jets and Packers and 49ers and Raiders.

Several mock drafts have Young going seventh to Oakland. But don't count on that.

The Texans will make the dumbest mistake. But other lemmings will follow them over the draft-day cliff.

And Vince Young will haunt them all for years to come.

 

SportingNews.com

An NFL argument: Who's No. 1?

By Matt Hayes
Posted: April 19, 2006

Googled NFL draft and got 31.6 million possible web pages in 0.11 seconds. Now I see why Dan Pompei makes the big bucks.

So while Draft Boy Danny and the remaining 31.5999 mill or so fill your eyes and ears with 40 times and projections and sleepers and busts, I'll take you another direction. If you don't already think I'm an idiot, then you will soon enough.

Reggie Bush isn't the best player in this draft. He's not even the best running back -- his overweight if-he-ever-gets-his-Little-Debbie-eating-butt-in-shape teammate LenDale White is.

Every scout and personnel man and fantasy football geek will tell you Reggie Bush is the next Barry Sanders. He has speed and moves and strength and blah, blah, blah.

Did these guys watch the Rose Bowl?

Look, I'm no NFL talent evaluator, but I've got two eyes. When the teams' talent levels were the same in the Rose Bowl, when the defense had as much or more speed as the Southern California offense, suddenly Bush didn't look so untouchable, so incredible, so undeniably the best back in decades, as so many scouts have unequivocally claimed.

Bush had 13 carries for 82 yards and one score in the national title game. LenDale White had 20 carries for 124 yards and three touchdowns. And when the Trojans needed two yards, when the game was on the line and needed to be salted away, White got the ball. An NFL scout told me that night that the USC staff gambled by not putting the ball in the hands of their best player, the guy who had the best chance to pick up the first down.

I told him they did.

Watch the Rose Bowl again. Watch the USC offense try to stretch plays outside to create space for Bush. Watch how utterly fruitless it was. The Texas defense could run, and its front seven had fantastic lateral speed. And, in case you haven't heard: NFL defenses can run. Really fast.

USC obviously had rushing success against Texas, but the Trojans did so by running between the tackles. Bush (5-11, 202) is not a between-the-tackles guy. He needs space to allow his moves and speed to take over.

And enough with the Gale Sayers comparisons. I'm too young to have watched Sayers, but I know that D-linemen in the NFL in the 1960s were 240 pounds and ran 5.4 40s. D-linemen these days weigh nearly 300 pounds and run 4.7 40s.

It's simple physiology. How many elite 200-pound running backs are there in the NFL? How many of them have the goods to be the No. 1 overall pick and be compared to Barry Sanders and Gale Sayers -- merely two of the best backs in the history of pigskin?

It doesn't take 0.11seconds to figure that out.

 

Matt Hayes sounds like a blatant idiot...

 

That's the point where it stopped being a good article. Skip Bayless is a clown.

 

I guess he missed the fact that Texas had an extra DB on the field for much of the game to account for Bush. This demonstrates that Bush is someone who teams gameplan on stopping, well Texas did not stop him but they had to account for him on every play. Texas did not have enough size on defense to stop White, and that was only due to their gameplan to stop Bush. And I am a UT fan, but I am also tired of hearing how Pete Carroll must not trust Bush with the game on the line since he was not on the field. We were all told how much of an advantage that USC had in the coaching department, but the fact is Pete Carroll made a mistake and did not put the ball in the hands of his best player with the game on the line or at least use him as a decoy, whereas Mack Brown had the good sense to put the ball in the hands of his best player with the game on the line. And we all know who won as a result. I will admit this whole house thing has me somewhat concerned about us taking Bush, but it is not because of his talent, there is no debating that, IMHO.

 

Casserly was just on FSN's Draft special and he said a few interesting things about the draft.

1. The 1st pick in the draft is expected to be an impact player. (duh)
2. The 2nd pick - He's most concerned about this pick. He's hoping that players who they have rated highly will slip to the 2nd round.
3. On both 3rds - Could be looking to trade one of these to pick up an extra 4th or pick next year.
4. On the 1st pick on the 2nd day (4th round) - This is a big trade pick. Teams will make offers to them for a player they think about overnight.