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[ClutchFans] Samuel Dalembert's Contract: A Brief Analysis
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BimaThug is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:00 AM   #1
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BleedRocketsRed is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:04 AM   #2
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I loved the Dalembert signing due to the fact that it was cheap. This article does a great job at breaking everything down.

Btw, he did look really good out there last night. Hopefully he can keep that up.
 
Rockets Jones is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:08 AM   #3
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Nice breakdown! Everybody who is still not happy with the signing of Dalembert after watching him last night should get their heads examed.
He blocks, alters, rebounds - offensively as well and tries to go for steals and hustles! Apparently he has range too, shooting two 18 footers and look very comfortable doing it as well
 
Clutch is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:12 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Rockets Jones View Post
Nice breakdown! Everybody who is still not happy with the signing of Dalembert after watching him last night should get their heads examed.
I doubt you've read a word of what anyone against the signing has said.

It's not that Dalembert won't benefit the team ... it's that he won't benefit the team enough, and the marginal improvement potentially means another .500-ish season and the loss of a first round draft pick. It's become harder and harder to figure out how this team ever gets to be on the same level with the Heat, Thunder or even the Clippers -- teams with real and lasting presents and futures.

Dalembert playing well and blocking a few shots isn't unexpected, but more importantly -- it doesn't change the big picture.

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jopatmc is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:17 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Clutch View Post
I doubt you've read a word of what anyone against the signing has said.

It's not that Dalembert won't benefit the team ... it's that he won't benefit the team enough, and the marginal improvement potentially means another .500-ish season and the loss of a first round draft pick. It's become harder and harder to figure out how this team ever gets to be on the same level with the Heat, Thunder or even the Clippers -- teams with real and lasting presents and futures.

Dalembert playing well and blocking a few shots isn't unexpected, but more importantly -- it doesn't change the big picture.

The only thing I can see here is Dally playing well enough to warrant some trade consideration and his salary as essentially an expiring can be combined with Thabeet's and whatever else to bring in a substantial upgrade. If we are playing below playoff level, which right now is a 50/50 proposition, then our draft pick starts looking like a lottery pick. That may be enough to swing a deal for Dwight or Pau, etc.

Also, on another note, if there is a deal for Pau, then Pau and Dally would be a very effective front line. No, it's not Nene and Pau. But it's playoff calibur. And possibly contender calibur depending on what happens with the rest of the youngsters.

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BimaThug is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:44 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by jopatmc View Post
The only thing I can see here is Dally playing well enough to warrant some trade consideration and his salary as essentially an expiring can be combined with Thabeet's and whatever else to bring in a substantial upgrade. If we are playing below playoff level, which right now is a 50/50 proposition, then our draft pick starts looking like a lottery pick. That may be enough to swing a deal for Dwight or Pau, etc.

Also, on another note, if there is a deal for Pau, then Pau and Dally would be a very effective front line. No, it's not Nene and Pau. But it's playoff calibur. And possibly contender calibur depending on what happens with the rest of the youngsters.
Unfortunately, due to the Ted Stepien rule, the Rockets CANNOT trade their 2012 first round pick during this season unless they get another team's UNPROTECTED first round pick in either 2012 or 2013 (which is highly unlikely to occur).

Even though it is almost inevitable that the Knicks will not be drafting in the top 5 picks--and that, therefore, the Rockets will get that pick--it is not a 100% certainty. And since the Rockets might possibly have to give either their 2012 or their 2013 pick to New Jersey, they cannot definitively trade their 2012 or 2013 pick.

The most the Rockets can trade (pick-wise) during this season is the following:

The Houston Rockets' first round pick in the First Allowable Draft (being the draft two years after Houston fulfills its obligation to convey a first round pick to New Jersey as part of the trade involving Terrence Williams)

Or, they can wait until the actual draft occurs and announce a trade AFTER Houston makes its selection on behalf of its trade partner. (Actually, I believe they can trade either their pick or the NY pick--but not both--after the regular season, if the Knicks make the playoffs.)

But that won't help the Rockets' in March trade conversations.

FYI, this will be an issue for pretty much EVERY season until the Rockets satisfy the NJ pick obligation. Yet another reason why I'd rather just make the playoffs, convey the pick, and get it over with. Especially in a year when the Rockets will most likely be getting another first rounder.

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jopatmc is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:53 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by BimaThug View Post
Unfortunately, due to the Ted Stepien rule, the Rockets CANNOT trade their 2012 first round pick during this season unless they get another team's UNPROTECTED first round pick in either 2012 or 2013 (which is highly unlikely to occur).

Even though it is almost inevitable that the Knicks will not be drafting in the top 5 picks--and that, therefore, the Rockets will get that pick--it is not a 100% certainty. And since the Rockets might possibly have to give either their 2012 or their 2013 pick to New Jersey, they cannot definitively trade their 2012 or 2013 pick.

The most the Rockets can trade (pick-wise) during this season is the following:

The Houston Rockets' first round pick in the First Allowable Draft (being the draft two years after Houston fulfills its obligation to convey a first round pick to New Jersey as part of the trade involving Terrence Williams)

Or, they can wait until the actual draft occurs and announce a trade AFTER Houston makes its selection on behalf of its trade partner. (Actually, I believe they can trade either their pick or the NY pick--but not both--after the regular season, if the Knicks make the playoffs.)

But that won't help the Rockets' in March trade conversations.

FYI, this will be an issue for pretty much EVERY season until the Rockets satisfy the NJ pick obligation. Yet another reason why I'd rather just make the playoffs, convey the pick, and get it over with. Especially in a year when the Rockets will most likely be getting another first rounder.
Bima,

with the restrictions most every team is placing on draft picks these day, I think it would be relatively easy to obtain a first round pick out of the lottery. Twill or Lee or several other players could be moved to a playoff contender for a first round pick. Heck, we may be able to trade a second rounder and cash for a bottom of the first round pick from a playoff contender. Dragic to a team looking for some bench scoring, etc. I don't see it as a problem. We could then set up a typical "pick swap" trade giving the other team the option of taking the highest availale of our first round draft picks, etc.

Secondly, don't see how we couldn't set up a pick swap trade for one of our 2012 picks or a future first round pick, say 2014, just like most everybody else is doing by lottery protecting picks.

Why do I not think this is a big hurdle to overcome and you apparently do?


PS: You know the Bosh trade idea is a good idea, don't you?

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Nook is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:27 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Clutch View Post
I doubt you've read a word of what anyone against the signing has said.

It's not that Dalembert won't benefit the team ... it's that he won't benefit the team enough, and the marginal improvement potentially means another .500-ish season and the loss of a first round draft pick. It's become harder and harder to figure out how this team ever gets to be on the same level with the Heat, Thunder or even the Clippers -- teams with real and lasting presents and futures.

Dalembert playing well and blocking a few shots isn't unexpected, but more importantly -- it doesn't change the big picture.
Exactly. Morey is a very bright and hard working GM. However, I do not see how the Rockets will be in a position to compete with the elites without getting a real superstar player. Trade has proven to be very hard, as now many stars are deciding where they will play. This leaves only one real avenue ... the draft, and picking at #12-14 is far harder to get a star, than drafting #1-6.

I just do not understand it.
 
Bandwagoner is offline Old 12-27-2011, 04:08 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Clutch View Post
I doubt you've read a word of what anyone against the signing has said.

It's not that Dalembert won't benefit the team ... it's that he won't benefit the team enough, and the marginal improvement potentially means another .500-ish season and the loss of a first round draft pick. It's become harder and harder to figure out how this team ever gets to be on the same level with the Heat, Thunder or even the Clippers -- teams with real and lasting presents and futures.

Dalembert playing well and blocking a few shots isn't unexpected, but more importantly -- it doesn't change the big picture.
Leslie isn't willing to bottom out the team. Morey presents him with deals and he approves or denies. I would prefer a winning season rather than 3-4 games under .500, even if it means we are the best team in the lottery again. The difference in lottery balls from 14 to 12 isn't worth 6 more nights of disappointing games to watch.

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lauradelenn is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:17 AM   #10
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I always enjoy your analyses, Bima, and this one was no exception. Thanks!
 
Amel is offline Old 12-27-2011, 12:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockets Jones View Post
Nice breakdown! Everybody who is still not happy with the signing of Dalembert after watching him last night should get their heads examed.
He blocks, alters, rebounds - offensively as well and tries to go for steals and hustles! Apparently he has range too, shooting two 18 footers and look very comfortable doing it as well
If he continues to play like last night, this guy will be a steal

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rockets934life is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:15 AM   #12
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Sounds like if Sammy isn't careful, he might play himself into a pretty important asset come March or June.

Thanks for the analysis, Bima.

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“We were all told by the league he was a tradeable player, and now they’re saying that Dell doesn’t have the authority to make the trade?” said an NBA executive who had periodic talks with New Orleans throughout the process. “Now they’re saying that Dell is an idiot, that he can’t do his job. [Expletive] this whole thing. David’s drunk on power, and he doesn’t give a [expletive] about the players, and he doesn’t give a [expletive] about the hundreds of hours the teams put in to make that deal"
 
DaDakota is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:16 AM   #13
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I love the breakdown but HATE the fact that we Rocket fans are resigned to hoping that a contract is a good one, and beneficial for a potential trade.

Yippeee...more trades for the treadmill.....ugh

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Htown's2kFinest is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:21 AM   #14
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Bima implanting the idea of Sammy + Hill for Al Jefferson. Nice . But putting the clutchfan's legend, Twill in there...

BOO THIS MAN

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jopatmc is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:23 AM   #15
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How about Sammy and Scola to the Heat for Chris Bosh?

LOL, flame away.

But if you want to see a bidding war start in the East for our players, that's how you start it. The Eastern Conference teams would be chewing each other's leg off to keep that deal from happening.

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Last edited by jopatmc; 12-27-2011 at 11:27 AM.
 
rockets934life is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:25 AM   #16
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How about Sammy and Scola to the Heat for Chris Bosh?

LOL, flame away.
That's not a horrible idea at all but you might be handing Miami the next three championships.

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“We were all told by the league he was a tradeable player, and now they’re saying that Dell doesn’t have the authority to make the trade?” said an NBA executive who had periodic talks with New Orleans throughout the process. “Now they’re saying that Dell is an idiot, that he can’t do his job. [Expletive] this whole thing. David’s drunk on power, and he doesn’t give a [expletive] about the players, and he doesn’t give a [expletive] about the hundreds of hours the teams put in to make that deal"
 
jopatmc is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:29 AM   #17
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That's not a horrible idea at all but you might be handing Miami the next three championships.
Read my edit. Morey starts the talks and all of a sudden a bunch of teams are calling to see if they can top the offer to keep Miami from getting that deal done. Then it turns into a bidding war, except we have total control of the deal, not the players.

And Miami would have every incentive to participate in the talks, even if they have no intention of trading Bosh, just to force the Eastern Conference teams to pay the highest price and weaken themselves more against Miami's Big 3.

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Last edited by jopatmc; 12-27-2011 at 11:33 AM.
 
rockets934life is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:33 AM   #18
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Read my edit. Morey starts the talks and all of a sudden a bunch of teams are calling to see if they can top the offer to keep Miami from getting that deal done. Then it turns into a bidding war, except we have total control of the deal, not the players.
If Sammy gives us what he did last night for 30 min a night, I agree with you. Miami, Boston and Orlando would love to have Sammy.

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“We were all told by the league he was a tradeable player, and now they’re saying that Dell doesn’t have the authority to make the trade?” said an NBA executive who had periodic talks with New Orleans throughout the process. “Now they’re saying that Dell is an idiot, that he can’t do his job. [Expletive] this whole thing. David’s drunk on power, and he doesn’t give a [expletive] about the players, and he doesn’t give a [expletive] about the hundreds of hours the teams put in to make that deal"
 
v3.0 is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:48 AM   #19
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The way I see it, the only way the Rockets get to draft perennially in the upper part of the lottery is to fire Morey. Otherwise, Morey will always try to field as much of a competitive team as he is allowed by Les that will never really be bottom feeders of the NBA.

I shudder the thought of enduring 10-20 win seasons just to hope there is a DWade, Durant, or a Blake Griffin in one of those lotteries. Otherwise we'd still be collecting a bunch of Shane Battiers or Patrick Pattersons, nice players but very much role players. But as the saying goes, sometimes you gotta go backwards to go forward.
 
BimaThug is offline Old 12-27-2011, 11:54 AM   #20
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The way I see it, the only way the Rockets get to draft perennially in the upper part of the lottery is to fire Morey. Otherwise, Morey will always try to field as much of a competitive team as he is allowed by Les that will never really be bottom feeders of the NBA.

I shudder the thought of enduring 10-20 win seasons just to hope there is a DWade, Durant, or a Blake Griffin in one of those lotteries. Otherwise we'd still be collecting a bunch of Shane Battiers or Patrick Pattersons, nice players but very much role players. But as the saying goes, sometimes you gotta go backwards to go forward.
I think you may have your reasoning backwards.

Morey has openly admitted that bottoming out is the easiest way to get significantly better.

It is Les that refuses to bottom out. Morey is doing what his boss is demanding of him: Get great again without ever being bad.

This is why all the "Fire Morey" or "Fire Murray" crap going around is so ludicrous. The OWNER (you know, the one who makes the decision whether or not to fire the GM) is the one keeping Morey from doing what so many fans want him to do. Why would he fire Morey for following HIS orders?

Sure, Morey could be fired some day. I don't think it will be anytime soon. (Hell, it's probably more likely that Morey leaves the Rockets when his contract expires if another owner is willing to shell out big bucks for him.)

But he most likely will NOT be fired for "refusing to bottom out."

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