[Help] me spend my money... home entertainment

[Yonkers]

Hey guys,

I'm buying a new house and have free reign to build up my media room. There is a dedicated media room in the house and it is already wired with some speakers on the wall. I don't know what type or anything so not sure if I'm going to keep it, etc.
I'm going to need pretty much everything except possibly speakers. TV, receiver, blu ray player, seating, remote control, media center PC. I don't know how I want to set it up.
The thought of a media center PC with lots of storage and all the DVDs and BluRays ripped to easily playable ISOs or something sounds really cool. Is that doable and feasible in this day and age?
The room is 18ft long by 12ft wide if that helps. And there is built-in cabinetry that can handle a 65" TV. There is tiered flooring so I plan to have two levels of seating.
Anyone who is knowledgeable about all this want to help me plan and buy some stuff? I figure my budget is about $10-15k for everything.

[Kam]

I'm a heterosexual male so I can't help you decorate that faaaaaabulous room of yours.

[Yonkers]

I'm not buying 500 posters of Vanessa Hudgens for you to cover wall to ceiling.

[bullardfan]

head-fi.com

[vinsensual]

I don't think he'll want to fill up an 18x12' room with amps and headphones.

Lots of inspiration and gear suggestions if you have the time at avsforum.com

[dmc89]

Originally Posted by Yonkers Hey guys, I'm buying a new house and have free reign to build up my media room. There is a dedicated media room in the house and it is already wired with some speakers on the wall. I don't know what type or anything so not sure if I'm going to keep it, etc. I'm going to need pretty much everything except possibly speakers. TV, receiver, blu ray player, seating, remote control, media center PC. I don't know how I want to set it up. The thought of a media center PC with lots of storage and all the DVDs and BluRays ripped to easily playable ISOs or something sounds really cool. Is that doable and feasible in this day and age? The room is 18ft long by 12ft wide if that helps. And there is built-in cabinetry that can handle a 65" TV. There is tiered flooring so I plan to have two levels of seating. Anyone who is knowledgeable about all this want to help me plan and buy some stuff? I figure my budget is about $10-15k for everything.

$10-15k is a workable budget for a HT, it's the equivalent of buying a Lexus as a car: shows you don't want to splurge yet still get solid quality+value.
Even though you said no speakers, I highly encourage you to buy new/good ones anyway. Also, ditch the 65" TV eventually and go for a projector instead. The following is a quick guide since there's millions of combos possible with selecting each individual component.

Speakers:
For your room size, I suggest going with 5.1 since 7.1 really fleshes out and worth the money in bigger rooms only.
There's around 50 great speaker manufacturers of which most people know only 3-4 i.e. JBL, Klipsch, Polk (NOT Bose). Speakers are the most subjective things to buy for a HT.

Set $5k apart for these
Marantz, Definitive, Paradigm, JBL, Klipsch, Jamo, NHT, Monitor, M&K, Martin Logan, etc.

Receiver:
Onkyo TX-SR806 $800

Blu Ray player:
OPPO BDP-83 $500

Seating:
various options $1-2k

Remote control:
Logitech Harmony $200

HTPC:
w/blu ray drives, enough memory, $2k

The room itself:
soundproofing, double dry-wall, electrical, cabling, HVAC, etc.
$5k

[pippendagimp]

components:

http://www.arcam.co.uk/


if u need speakers:

http://www.sonusfaber.com/eng/home.html

[Pole]

I'm in the market for a new receiver right now, and I currently own Denon and Yamaha receivers. I had told myself I would try a Marantz or Onkyo receiver, but after really shopping around and auditioning several, I've pretty much decided on a Pioneer Elite SC-27.

I have a house full of Klipsch speakers........some of them over 20 years old, but if I was in the market for new ones, I think I'd have to splurge with some B&W's.

[Xerobull]

Make sure you check www.monoprice.com for your cabling and hardware. A/V cabling and hardware has an insane markup. Just because you're going to drop some cheddar doesn't mean you have to overpay for everything.

Ohhh...you know what you could do with the savings from monoprice? Build a secret bookcase door to the room.

[R0ckets03]

My dream system that I wanna build in six months:

Samsung 65-inch LED
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN65C6...5397344&sr=1-9

Definitive Technology Mythos ST Speakers
http://www.definitivetechnology.com/Products/products.aspx?path=Home%20Theater%20Speaker%20Systems|Floor-Standing%20Systems&productid=Mythos%20ST%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 %20%20&hometheater=1

Pioneer Elite SC-27 Audio Receiver
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU.../ci.SC-27.Kuro

Sonos BU250 Music System
http://www.sonos.com/products/bundle...&LangType=1033

Couple that with PS3, Xbox 360, Uverse TV and Internet with some awesome seating.

Think I can definitely build that system for less then $15K if you shop around.

[R0ckets03]

Originally Posted by Pole I'm in the market for a new receiver right now, and I currently own Denon and Yamaha receivers. I had told myself I would try a Marantz or Onkyo receiver, but after really shopping around and auditioning several, I've pretty much decided on a Pioneer Elite SC-27. I have a house full of Klipsch speakers........some of them over 20 years old, but if I was in the market for new ones, I think I'd have to splurge with some B&W's.

Good call on the Elite. I've seen brand new ones on ebay for around $1200.

[bullardfan]

Originally Posted by Pole I'm in the market for a new receiver right now, and I currently own Denon and Yamaha receivers. I had told myself I would try a Marantz or Onkyo receiver, but after really shopping around and auditioning several, I've pretty much decided on a Pioneer Elite SC-27. I have a house full of Klipsch speakers........some of them over 20 years old, but if I was in the market for new ones, I think I'd have to splurge with some B&W's.

b&w's are a nice choice. nautilus 801?? u prolly dont want to blow $9,000 on a reciever but the Luxman M-600A is pretty freakin sweet. marantz ud series look nice. blu-ray and SACD. stretch your spending to around $20,000 and you can have a room of audio/video bliss.

Luxman M-600A: ~$9,000
B&W Nautilus 801s:~$11,000
Marantz UD8004: ~$3000

maybe the luxman is overkill...maybe it's all overkill. nevermind.

[thadeus]

Buy lots of books and make your own library.

[pippendagimp]

Originally Posted by bullardfan b&w's are a nice choice. nautilus 801?? u prolly dont want to blow $9,000 on a reciever but the Luxman M-600A is pretty freakin sweet. marantz ud series look nice. blu-ray and SACD. stretch your spending to around $20,000 and you can have a room of audio/video bliss. Luxman M-600A: ~$9,000 B&W Nautilus 801s:~$11,000 Marantz UD8004: ~$3000 maybe the luxman is overkill...maybe it's all overkill. nevermind.

i love the Luxman and B&W stuff, but the Marantz, correct me if i'm wrong but don't they basically share the same hardware as the Denon's?

[Dr of Dunk]

Originally Posted by Pole I'm in the market for a new receiver right now, and I currently own Denon and Yamaha receivers. I had told myself I would try a Marantz or Onkyo receiver, but after really shopping around and auditioning several, I've pretty much decided on a Pioneer Elite SC-27. I have a house full of Klipsch speakers........some of them over 20 years old, but if I was in the market for new ones, I think I'd have to splurge with some B&W's.

I have a Denon that replaced a Pioneer and I have yet to be able to configure that Denon to produce sounds as good as the plain-jane Pioneer did. It wasn't even an Elite. Maybe it's just my ears, I don't know. I love Pioneer's products. Be careful with the Onkyo's - I've heard several of their models having issues with overheating or running hot. That being said, it's tough to beat Onkyo's for bang-for-the-buck.

[Yonkers]

Originally Posted by dmc89 $10-15k is a workable budget for a HT, it's the equivalent of buying a Lexus as a car: shows you don't want to splurge yet still get solid quality+value. Even though you said no speakers, I highly encourage you to buy new/good ones anyway. Also, ditch the 65" TV eventually and go for a projector instead. The following is a quick guide since there's millions of combos possible with selecting each individual component. Speakers: For your room size, I suggest going with 5.1 since 7.1 really fleshes out and worth the money in bigger rooms only. There's around 50 great speaker manufacturers of which most people know only 3-4 i.e. JBL, Klipsch, Polk (NOT Bose). Speakers are the most subjective things to buy for a HT. Set $5k apart for these Marantz, Definitive, Paradigm, JBL, Klipsch, Jamo, NHT, Monitor, M&K, Martin Logan, etc. Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR806 $800 Blu Ray player: OPPO BDP-83 $500 Seating: various options $1-2k Remote control: Logitech Harmony $200 HTPC: w/blu ray drives, enough memory, $2k The room itself: soundproofing, double dry-wall, electrical, cabling, HVAC, etc. $5k

Can you tell me the benefit of going with a projector? If the resolution of the projector is the same as the TV (1080p) but you're on a bigger screen, wouldn't it a poorer quality? I guess my monitor is a higher resolution than all of them and I wouldn't want to mount my 24", so size does matter I guess. Since there is tiered seating and the second tier is 6' deep that means the people seating up front will be 11ft away from the screen. How big should the TV/project screen be? What's a good projector out there?
Also, to clarify... this house is 5 yrs old and already has the media room so I don't need to worry about HVAC etc. They have speakers and light dimmers and wiring already run. I'm not sure if they soundproofed it or not though.
Everything else sounds along the lines of what I'm wanting though. Thanks for the tip on the 5.1. I know there are systems with alot more speakers out there (9.2, etc) but have no idea the breakoff point for what to do. So that was good to know.
Thanks again.

[dmc89]

Originally Posted by Yonkers Can you tell me the benefit of going with a projector? If the resolution of the projector is the same as the TV (1080p) but you're on a bigger screen, wouldn't it a poorer quality? Since there is tiered seating and the second tier is 6' deep that means the people seating up front will be 11ft away from the screen. How big should the TV/project screen be? What's a good projector out there?

Benefit?
Huge screen, "different, cinematic" picture-experience, full 1080p

Poorer quality switching to larger screen?
No, not necessarily. This will depend on your projector's specs, size of screen, screen material itself (don't be cheap), and ambient lighting in the room. The main factor is light, both ambient and the projector's lumen output.

All the ones I suggest here will blow* a 65" and under flat-panel TV away at this price range. They have solid light output so you can watch them with lights on though I doubt you'd want to that for the lamp's limited life or maybe lower picture quality.

*That being said, here's Phil Hinton's excellent post on this subject for people with your concerns,

"You will very rarely get a projector to look as bright or vivid as a Plasma or LCD (at domestic pricing anyway). Room conditions are a major factor along with the actual ftl from the screen. Most good home projectors will manage about 16-20ftl when set up for brightness on a decent sized normal gain screen. A TV in dynamic or standard picture modes are more like 50-70ftl."

Tiered seating concerns
Shouldn't be any, most of the HTs I saw before designing my dad's and older brothers were like this.

Screen size
All depends on how bright the room you'll be watching it in is, and what ratio of light intensity you want on the screen. If you're watching it in a dark room you can easily go to a 250" screen with these projectors (though a short throw lens needed for your room) and still have an amazing picture. But for bright rooms, these models will give you the high-q picture for a ~120" screen (specs vary, you'll have to do some hw). Remember, any projector can give you a huge image, it's just the expensive ones that give you a 1080p/demo-quality picture at larger sizes whereas cheaper ones will have 'washed out'/dimmed at those sizes, and this is even further seen by the room's ambient light.

Projector recommendations?
Epson 8500 UB $2k
Panasonic PT-AE4000 $1.5k
Sharp XV-Z15000 $2k
Mitsubishi HC6800 $2.5k

Also, see if you can get one of the 2007 and onwards JVC DLAs, that would be great. They are the equivalent of a Mercedes S-class. Don't be afraid of buying projectors that are 2 years old, in terms of real world picture difference it's just 3-4% max to the current avg models.

[v3.0]

Speakers:

MartinLogan clx



Separate preamp/amp:

Mark Levinson no. 40



Mark levinson no. 433 Amp

[Yonkers]

Originally Posted by dmc89 Benefit? Huge screen, "different, cinematic" picture-experience, full 1080p Poorer quality switching to larger screen? No, not necessarily. This will depend on your projector's specs, size of screen, screen material itself (don't be cheap), and ambient lighting in the room. The main factor is light, both ambient and the projector's lumen output. All the ones I suggest here will blow* a 65" and under flat-panel TV away at this price range. They have solid light output so you can watch them with lights on though I doubt you'd want to that for the lamp's limited life or maybe lower picture quality. *That being said, here's Phil Hinton's excellent post on this subject for people with your concerns, "You will very rarely get a projector to look as bright or vivid as a Plasma or LCD (at domestic pricing anyway). Room conditions are a major factor along with the actual ftl from the screen. Most good home projectors will manage about 16-20ftl when set up for brightness on a decent sized normal gain screen. A TV in dynamic or standard picture modes are more like 50-70ftl." Tiered seating concerns Shouldn't be any, most of the HTs I saw before designing my dad's and older brothers were like this. Screen size All depends on how bright the room you'll be watching it in is, and what ratio of light intensity you want on the screen. If you're watching it in a dark room you can easily go to a 250" screen with these projectors (though a short throw lens needed for your room) and still have an amazing picture. But for bright rooms, these models will give you the high-q picture for a ~120" screen (specs vary, you'll have to do some hw). Remember, any projector can give you a huge image, it's just the expensive ones that give you a 1080p/demo-quality picture at larger sizes whereas cheaper ones will have 'washed out'/dimmed at those sizes, and this is even further seen by the room's ambient light. Projector recommendations? Epson 8500 UB $2k Panasonic PT-AE4000 $1.5k Sharp XV-Z15000 $2k Mitsubishi HC6800 $2.5k Also, see if you can get one of the 2007 and onwards JVC DLAs, that would be great. They are the equivalent of a Mercedes S-class. Don't be afraid of buying projectors that are 2 years old, in terms of real world picture difference it's just 3-4% max to the current avg models.

Thanks for the detailed response.
It's a dedicated media room so there is no ambient light. So it would seem a 100" screen is pretty big for sitting 11-12 ft away. But the website I just plugged the Epson 8500 info into, gave me that as a recommended screen size. That's massive. I guess that's the cinematic experience you're talking about.
The projector prices are very reasonable. Is it the cost of the bulbs that shy people away from doing this more? Or the fact that you have to have a low lit room to really enjoy it?
And I don't have any concept of the ftl. How important is that? I can see how it's important in a brighter room, but what about a dedicated media room with no/low ambient lighting?

[dmc89]

Originally Posted by Yonkers Thanks for the detailed response. It's a dedicated media room so there is no ambient light. So it would seem a 100" screen is pretty big for sitting 11-12 ft away. But the website I just plugged the Epson 8500 info into, gave me that as a recommended screen size. That's massive. I guess that's the cinematic experience you're talking about. The projector prices are very reasonable. Is it the cost of the bulbs that shy people away from doing this more? Or the fact that you have to have a low lit room to really enjoy it? And I don't have any concept of the ftl. How important is that? I can see how it's important in a brighter room, but what about a dedicated media room with no/low ambient lighting?

Yes, that's the cinematic experience. But also, there's a hard-to-describe/different feeling of watching a movie on a large screen that's being projected rather than simply seeing some Blu Ray demo scene at Best Buy. It has to do with light reflected off the screen rather than directly into your eyes.

They're definitely reasonable. My family's old home theater in the 90s had a CRT Runco projector (150 lbs heavy, 3 bulbs which needed to be converged, spent ~$30k to get a picture quality that had been surpassed by midrange TVs in 2005) which was a pain to maintain and use. The reputation of projectors as demanding/niche comes from that last generation of HT projectors.

Projector bulbs cost ~$300 and last more than 2000 hrs on avg. If you use the projector just twice a week for a cinematic movie like Star Wars/LOTR, it should last you years. All depends on how bright you like your picture and how long you use the projector. Since your room is dark you have nothing to worry about. For the projector to be a limited-use, big-purchase item that needs a new bulb every so many years, and one that belongs in a dedicated HT (more cost) is what scares people away. Projectors can be like Ferraris: few people use them as daily drivers, instead, they drive them on weekends when the weather is beautiful or a special occasion calls for it.

FTL = ANSI-lumen of the projector divided by square foot of the screen.

From projector central, "foot-Lamberts (fL), which takes the screen into account and measures the total light that is being reflected back toward the audience."

Your commercial theaters are somewhere around the 15 foot-lamberts area of brightness. Some less A/V-savvy friends of mine set their LCD+plasmas on full brightness, contrast, and color which is dangerous for eye strain (ever stare into a torch in the dark?). I used a radiospectrometer and special software to calibrate the projector settings to THX standards. The resulting image and audience reactions makes going the extra mile worth it. Ask your installer to use the above if possible, otherwise just eyeball it with the optimizers they provide in some demo-quality movies like Pixar's Monster's Inc. and Wall-E.