Has there ever been a true scorer that has come into the NBA and developed into a solid playmaking PG? I can not think of a single instance of a good scoring player becoming an impact PG. Steve Francis is an incredible offensive scorer, but he has no concept of how to set up his teamates, outside of the occasional alley oop play. There have been tons of players that were playmakers and scorers, and tons that were playmakers first that became scorers. It seems that you have to have the ability to see things as they develop and to be able to take advantage of that with a pass. Steve doesn't have this ability. Someone please help me out, because if it has never happened before then the chances are it won't happen with Steve either. DD
You are very correct ... it will never happen! He doesn't have the passing skills or mentality of a PG. Just as many experts, commentators and former players have pointed out ... including Dr. Jack (below) see his comment about Steve Dr. Jack: Well the season almost 80% done and the Rockets find themselves on the verge of falling out of the playoff race and under .500%. The Suns, Warriors and Sonics all have been making moves to pull away from the Rockets or catch them. So here is my break down of the Rockets: PG Steve Francis: Very gifted player. One of the best finishers in the NBA, excellent rebounder and improved defender. Steve has had his finest professional season statistically, but has failed to be discipline or get his teammates involved. Overall I believe Steve took a step back this year and only strengthened the calls for Steve to move to shooting guard. With the rockets losing Steve has failed to take the blame or be vocal. In fact he has often deflected the blame. As Steve has played poorly of late, so has his team. In fairness to Steve he is playing hurt. Grade: C Cuttino Mobley: Played a large portion of the season with bad ankles, as a result he had a very inconsistent season. All of his stats slipped, but that was to be expected with Yao Ming on the team. Often the ire of fans early, Cuttino cut down on his shots late in the season and appeared to buy more into the team concept than his more talented running mate. Still serious question exist about Cuttino's future on the Rockets. Grade: B- James Posey: James showed signs early on of being a key for the Rockets. He played excellent defense, got rebounds and helped the transition game. However as the season wore on James seemed to fade, his defense lost its intensity and he seldom ran. James is a free agent and wants a deal right at the MLE, there is a 50% chance James plays elsewhere next year. Grade: C Eddie Griffin: Eddie had a very unusual season. He provided a consistent shot blocker, good defender and improving rebounder. However, on offense Eddie never got on track and still was too perimeter happy. Late in the season Eddie made an effort to play in the post, with solid results. Eddie is only 20 years old and is way away from his prime, but the Rockets hoped to see more development. Eddie appears to lack the maturity to reach his potential right now. The Rockets are probably hoping for close to 10/10/2 numbers from Eddie next year or the season after. Eddie will never score alot with Francis, Ming and Mobley. Grade: C+ Yao Ming: Was much hyped and criticized at the same time. Yao did not disapoint. Yao was one of the top 5 defenders in the NBA, basically cutting off the lane for penetrators. Yao rebounded better than expected and showed an ability to score well in big games. Yao needs to improve on sealing off his defender and also needs to improve his conditioning and endurance. The best rookie in the NBA, Yao should improve in the coming season. There is a good chance the offense runs through Ming next season. Yao is the Rockets smartest player and most clutch player. 20/10/2 is quite likely next season. Grade: A- Rudy T: A very difficult man to grade, depending on expectations. I believe expectations were too high. The Rockets still have many warts, and Rudy T h
This is the best I could come up with for now. I'm not sure what you mean by "impact point guard." Scott Skiles scored 27.4 points a game as a senior at Michigan State. The 27.4 points I believe was 2nd in the NCAA that year. In his injury-ridden NBA career, he was primarily a playmaker in my opinion.
Skiles could already pass the ball though, he was a very capable passer. I am looking for an instance of a below average passer, who is a good to great scorer learning how to read the game and BECOME a great passer. I really can not think of a single one. DD
I dunno, Isiah was a high scoring small guard, but he's damn hell capable of making his teammates better ( Rodman, Salley, do i have to continue ? ) What about Denver backcourt dynamic duo in the early to mid 80's, Fat Lever and Micharl Johnson ( if i'm not mistaken ), but they didn't win any crap either ( bad comparison )
Please provide a link to this quote... and, no, not a link to someone named "Jack Ramsey" on the ESPN boards who posted it.
D.o.D, Instead of hijaking the thread, why not participate. In your fountain of knowledge have you ever seen a great scorer become a good playmaker without first having the ability to pass? DD
Gary Payton was a scorer and assist man in college. Calvin Murphy was the definition of gunner in college. Pete Maravich may qualify by the same rules as Calvin. Tiny Archibald was a good scorer in college and became a good distributor in the pro's. Oscar Robertson averaged over 30 ppg in college and was a good-but-not-great assist man. Stockton didn't have outrageously great assist numbers in college and did average 20 ppg his senior year. Steve Francis averaged was 8-9 assists per game player in college. There are several people who were very good to great scorers in college that still could distribute the ball in the pro's.
Thanks for your input. But if a quote is attributed to someone like Jack Ramsay, it needs to have some proof. This is the second time I've seen it posted and the only link anyone's been able to provide is a user on the ESPN boards named "Jack Ramsey" posted it. As for your attempt to drive Steve Francis down some more, see my response above. Your question itself is flawed. The roles of guards in college and the pro's vary greatly. Just because you're a great assist man in college doesn't mean you'll be one in the NBA. Just because you're a great scorer in college doesn't mean you'll be one in the NBA. If I spend more than the 5 minutes it took me to find the names above, I'm sure I can find others.
I am not necessarily talking about College, and all the examples you gave above were of good PG's in college. Steve was a SG in college. I am not trying to drive Steve down more, I am wondering if it is possible to make the transition. If it has never been done before maybe there is a reason for it. DD
I think Steve is a very capable passer, but not necessarily from the PG spot where it requires "court vision." I'm not sure that Skiles was a more capable passer than Steve is, but Skiles has court vision. I think Steve's court vision is sub-par at best. I'm not sure if he can see the court like a true playmaker can. I've always thought that court vision was natural instinct and not something you can necessarily improve on. Yes you can maximize your own personal potential. But no one will become John Stockton or Magic Johnson by simply practicing more or doing anything else for that matter. Their on-court vision was a gift they were born with in my opinion. Because of this, I've always held the view that Steve is a natural 2-guard and not a PG.
Forget passing skills and court vision, Francis's organizational skills and tempo controling of games are still not up to the normal NBA PG level let alone premier PG level. After so many years of supposedly learning, he still doesn't know when to push the ball up the court, when to slow it down and when to call a certain right play at a certain situation. I think he simply doesn't have that PG instincts and intelligence and if he hasn't learnt it now, I am not very sure it's something he can ever learn.
Arenas tonight..... 22 pts. 9 ass. 7 to. Steve would get crucified for a game like that(7to). I don't know if Arenas will become a pure point guard, but every time I see him, his jumpshot looks like money. Heck of a 2nd round pick. Might be MIP this year.
Nice player but I am not so sure if he can ever become an elite PG. Like I am not very sure about our own Steve Francis.
Tiny was going to be my contribution. Didn't he lead the league in scoring and assists one year? He only had a few great years but remarkable they were.
carayip, BINGO Francis is the anti-Stockton, and simply defers to his incredible athletic ability. I think it's all he knows. He makes the game harder than it needs to be. Good point guards don't have to dribble incessantly to control the tempo - witness Kidd or Stockton. They give the ball up early and then might get it back in the flow of the offense. They know when to push the ball, when to slow the tempo & when to get others involved. Steve's idea of being a good PG is 2-3 successful alleyoops to Cato or Posey/game. He is really lost and is clearly without any role model or strong direction from the coaching staff. The iso stuff is what Rudy weaned him on and he is really struggling to grasp any other concept. His lack of leadership, both as the court general, and as a good defensive player (which he could be with some effort), is not helping the Rox grow up. Right now he is is just a curiosity with incredible offensive athletic capabilities.......and that's all, until the team starts winning. I have finally concluded that trying to make him a PG is like: PUSHING ROPE. D R
I'd rather have a PF AND SF that could score than a PG. Time for some changes. IMO - Steve will never own a Championship ring - Never - at least not at the point.
I'm with DoD on the Dr. Jack "article". No way is that the real Dr. Jack, cuz the person who wrote that sounds like he actually knows what he's talking about. I have never read anything Dr Jack related that didn't leave me
