i dont have a psychologist right now. so im going to vent a little on here as if someone was actually going to read this and care... please dont make fun of me, im fragile and cut to shreds right now.. no one has to read this i dont care... im a pretty quiet guy. painfully shy. ive been that way for a long time. its so bad when i get in groups of people i get these vibes like im scaring everyone because i have nothing to say, and everyone thinks im crazy or something. 80% of my life is awkward because of my lack of conversation. meeting new people is pretty much impossible, unless im drunk. but not really really drunk, which is how i usually am when i drink. it has to be a perfect medium where im not about to pass out, and i still care enough to try to talk to someone. that rarely happens. i have a few friends. mostly from middle school. back when i was still normal and hadnt overthought everything, i was able to be myself. what i mean by over thinking is right now, when i want to talk to someone, i analyze every little word i consider saying to the point where i always find something wrong with it, and decide not to say it. so i just sit in silence, coming to the conclusion that not saying anything is better than the possiblity of embarressing myself. whenever i admit this to someone their response is "F**k it, who cares" stop overthinking it and just be yourself. ive tryed having that attitude. it doesnt work. in high school however, i was intraduced to a girl, by a friend of mine. i struggled a little in the beggining getting to know her, but i got through it and we went out for three years. she would always tell me she loved me and what not. i would say it back, but i wouldnt really be sure if i meant it or not. i always came to the conclusion that she was not the girl of my dreams, little things about her annoyed me. i graduated high school. i went to college in austin, she went to college in austin. i came up with the bright idea that we should be unexclusive, to try dating other people. she started crying and didnt understand, but finally i convinced her. so we were free to meet other people and what not but we still fooled around and stuff. it seemed like a good situation. i really dont know what i was thinking. i am incapable of meeting new people, unless they are really really interested in me. im a pretty good looking b*stard. im not the greatest or anything but you know what i mean. i see of girls showing interest in me. eye contact, trying to talk to me occasionally. but for some reason i always blow them off. and the ones who seem to want to talk to me never try, because i give off this creepy angry loner vibe. i dont smile very often and quite frankly im depressed all of the time. i guess when i broke up with this girl, i had enough confidence to think that all of this would eventually change but it hasnt. so she met someone last year. she assured me she didnt like him that much. he just hit on her and what not, and she was just humoring him. then a couple months later she told me he kissed her. i wanted to shoot myself in the face. but she assured me it was no big deal she didnt really understand why she did that but she didnt really like him. anyway, i had brought this on myself, she was free to do whatever she wanted. but it still hurt like hell. anyway things progressed with that guy, now she is full fledged going out with him, boyfriend girlfriend. she wont even kiss me anymore, because now they are exclusive. she says she still loves me, and im her best friend. but every time im with her i cant stop imagining what they do, and how i just let her go. ive made her cry about 3 times the past week telling her how much this is hurting me. my reasoning being, when i said "lets date other people" my thinking was that she would casually date a few guys, but not go hardcore and find a new boyfriend and leave me out in the cold. im stupid. im in agony. it really wouldnt be so bad. i mean i still come to the conclusion that she is not the girl of my dreams. but being antisocial has left me in the position that i have about 3 friends right now. her being the only girl. i tell myself to stop talking to her. to be strong and move on. but i have nothing to move on to. theres a weezer song off their first album and the lyrics go "shes all ive got and i dont want to be alone" i should have thought of that when i screwed everything up. you dont realize how good something is until its gone. i saw her tonight. and i could see the change in her from the way things were. she was so cold. nice and sweet but so unaffectionate. i tried to be normal. i tried to have just regular conversations with her. but at the end of the night my thoughts overtook me and i became so angry and depressed i took her home in silence. she knows how bad i feel, and she worries, but thats really all... and its really not about her so much. its about the fact that i am so pathetic, that i cant see myself achieving a relationship with anyone else. i cant see myself as a normal person in society, dating, and having fun with others. i mean i go to parties, i drink and i try to have a good time. but always, always, there is a moment where i just go off alone away from everyone and sit there depressed out of my mind. thinking how ive screwed up everything. every party it happens. it could be all blown out of proportion, ive had various stupid moments with other girls other than her where ive hooked up with them, both of us drunk out of our minds. but what is that? thats not real. thats not worth anything. i have nothing now to show for it. i just wanted to rant and rave about all of that. the bottom line is i hate myself deeply. this past month i have slept most of the day. i eat one meal a day. i drive around aimlessly at night. im so depressed i got a speeding ticket two nights ago and i dont even care. i mean what does it matter? i do have a tiny ray of hope. nothing specific. but i always think i can turn things around. vanilla sky, good movie until the last hour and a half. penelope cruz says, "every passing minute is another chance to turn it all around." well i dont see it happening any time soon, but i guess i believe it eventually will. i would honestly kill myself right now though. but two things hold me back from that. im Catholic, i fear the consequences. i pray everyday for things to get better, i havent lost my faith. my parents love me alot. i had the perfect childhood, in terms of parenting, they always told me how much they loved me and i know they would be devestated. nevertheless, when i fall asleep i just hope i never wake up. i am currently a sad angry lonely man. if you have read this entire thread, i am surprised. it is entrenched in negativity and i apologize if i have brought you down with me. but i just wanted to type it all out, it made me feel better. it was for me. you can respond if you want, i dont care either way.. thank you very much.
Holden, it seems like you have had a lot of these depressed threads. Have you ever visited a psychiatrist? My dad went through a stage of severe depression not too long ago. Hearing your predicament, it reminded me of that. At any rate, he saw a psychiatrist, and found out that he showed all the symptoms of a chemical imbalance. His depression was the result of his brain (or some gland) not producing enough of a certain kind of chemical. He took some prescribed medication for a little while, and he was his old self again. I just bring this up so that you can see that the problem might not lie in you or anything you have done. Sometimes, the brain ceases to function correctly, just like your immune system might do when you get a cold. I highly suggest you look into this, because if what happened to my dad is happening to you, then the ease in which you can solve the problem will surprise you. And if that is not the problem, the only advice I can give you is to keep on trucking, and get help from as many people as you can, comfortable or not. Everyone goes through depressions, and if you hang on, life will eventually present you with reasons to be happy again.
Holden: Sounds like you've had a rough go of it. I won't pretend to know how YOU feel but I understand the weight of depression. Seeing a therapist (whether it be a psychiatrist, psychologist, counselor or even a clergyman) is a good idea. It helps to give some clarity to situations that might otherwise seem out of control. Best of luck to you.
Well, it's 11:29, and about an hour and a half past my bedtime...my wife's been asleep for several hours. I read everything you wrote, and I kept saying to myself: man...that sounds just like me around ten years ago (I'm 34 for reference). I wish I could tell you that a light switch will turn on one day and you'll live happily ever after, but I can't honestly say that. Maybe it will for you, but it didn't for me. Seeing as I saw so much of myself in your writings, I'll tell you what's happend to me.....briefly though, 'cuz I'm tired. I drank myself into oblivion for the first seven years of college (three priorities: 1st) be wasted,....2nd) work;.....distant 3rd) go to school) If you want to know how I felt during this time, read your essay. I was depressed just like you. In the eighth and ninth year, I sobered up just enough to graduate. For the next few years I went from ****ty job to ****ty job for a while, and I still felt the same. I didn't do all of the bad things I used to, but I still had quite a tolerance for alcohol built up. I drank too much. Eventually, I ended up in the worst job I've ever had, got WAY depressed and ended up seeing a shrink. Did prozac for a while. Got a better job, and it's been mostly uphill ever since. Am I happy? Sometimes.....actually,,,quite a bit, though it's been a little rough lately. Do I drink too much? Sometimes...though I haven't had a drink in several months. Do I get down? Sometimes. Do I ever think about suicide. Never. Then again, maybe I never did. But the point is...if I haven't further depressed you too much to continue reading....is that although I'm not the most well adjusted person in the world, I do better than just survive. I'm content with my life, and I'd probably do better if I wasn't too stubborn to get some additional help. One thing you should know Holden, you definitely ain't alone. Just about everyone has felt the feelings you've felt, and a shocking number of Americans are clinically depressed. Get some help. See a shrink. If he prescribes anti-depressents; take them and be happy about it. For most people...me included...they're a G..damn wonder drug. And realize that you might struggle with this for a long time....possibly forever. But if you concentrate on doing things that enhance your self-worth, you'll lead a pretty happy life (I won't lie to you; you'll go through some ****ty periods; you just have to force yourself to get back on track). You may not ever be the happiest camper in the tent, but you CAN be happy with yourself and with your life. As for the girl.....It's probably the main thing on your mind right now; sorry if I've made it seem insignificant. I'll try to refrain from telling you that it is.....ooops, I said it. There will be a lot more girls, and if you're like me, you'll break up with all of them, and you'll still feel like **** when they're gone. Someday, you'll find the right one, and I can only hope for you that she's as good as the one I found. Good luck...sorry I was brief; I may have some better words of encouragment after some shut eye. ps. I'm not telling you to quit forever, but for now, you need to get your head straight. Stop drinking....and if you're doing any drugs (not just EVEN grass, but ESPECIALLY grass), stop that too. At least for a month.
As a person whose background is in clinical psychology (ahem, war is not my only interest), I can only say: Congrats on being a normal guy. It sounds like you might be SAD - Social Anxiety Disorder - and maybe some medication (like proaxin or something) might be in order, but my guess is it's just a bum steer by a girl. Oh yeah, that one... No meds. Your friends are right - you've got to try to not worry about it so much. I'm guessing you're not older than 26-7. Keep focused on what you can do with the rest of your pitifully short life... Incidentally, a downtime like this will show you who your real friends are. You're much better off having 3 real friends than 3 dozen "acquaintences"... Real friends can't be bought. You're a lucky person if you have more than two of them. As for your ex-girlfriend... F* her. She sounds like three of the women I've gone out with, and you know what? She's done with you. If she's seeing other guys and not ashamed of it around you, then it's over for good. You may have (definitely did) made a mistake with the whole "open relationship/dating others" thing, but we all make mistakes. DON"T DO THAT AGAIN! Next time, play the "I'm a pathetic happy man who is glad to have met you and lets always be together" angle when the girl indicates that's what she wants... But there are of course many fish in the sea - one more TRUE thing your buddies will tell you... In the short term, though, just try to get over the depression. I do not reccommend medication for that. Exercise. And plenty of Internet p*rn.
Holden, I feel you man. I've been in almost the exact same position before, even recently. The whole situation is very difficult to deal with. Seeing a therapist may be a good idea. I didn't and still deal with some of the same issues everyday. If you choose not to go that route I highly suggest you first walk away from the situation with your ex for your own well being. The more contact you have with her, the more these feelings and lack of selfesteem will continue to dominate you. Give yourself some space from her(weeks or even months) and do what you liked to do before all of this went down. Go see movies, live bands, play pool, check out Rockets games with friends and BBSers, whatever you like to do man. This is just a start my friend. I'm curious about one thing. Are you an only child?? Feel free to drop me an email at tattooedgroove@austin.rr.com anytime you want to vent or just bull****. Like you said, sometimes just talking or writing helps. Take care dude. Things will get better.
Don't pay any attention to A-Train, Holden. Have the courage to take the next step and call a professional, even if you don't have insurance or the money. They will put you on the right track. Drop all your commitments if you need to. You can work out the details with your work, family, and ex-girlfriend later. And remember, there is no shame in being happy and pursuing your dreams. No one will think less of you for having a counselor or needing prescription drugs for a while. Trust me, I've seen it work for others. Good luck.
Exercise. Do not turn to meds, and certainly do not seek professional help. As a trained psychologist who knows their game, I can promise you that their interest is to keep you coming back, not to get you well. Exercise. Physical exercise will help tremendously in getting your confidence back. Seeing a shrink will only cost you thousands of dollars and drop your self-esteem even lower. Exercise. You already know you're good looking. Reinforce that with physical exercise, and tone your body. Your mind will get "toned" too. Your confidence - which your former girlfriend apparently stole and trampled on - will return. That will help you to break any mental associations you have with her - and move on. Which is what you must do, as I suspect you already know.
I've known two women friends whose lives were saved by low strength, low cost anti-depressants and behavior exercises to rebuild their self-esteem. Without the medications to calm their thought patterns, they would have never had the means to drive to a gym, much less work out. A psychologist is a true "counselor." Their job is to treat the patient's behavior, ask questions, set goals for them. They almost always refer the patient to a psychiatrist for prescriptions, if they are necessary.
ice pack: I am a psychologist. For any condition that requires meds we must refer them to a psychiatrist. Psychologists generally make the initial diagnosis, and if there's meds needed, then they have to refer the patient to a psychiatrist. Psychologists cannot prescribe medicine. If they deem that no meds are required, though (which is what they really prefer) then they recommend treatment. With themselves, of course. It doesn't always work that way, but it works that way enough to be called a scam. 9 times out of 10 the patient needs some physical therapy - not drugs or even extensive psychological therapy - and I feel an ethical obligation to point that out. Most psychologists/psychiatrists do not appear to be moved by ethical obligations... For the record, I do not work in the field, although I am trained in clinical psychology. I didn't learn until well into my training that much of it was industry-driven BS. It's more of a drug-dealing business than a "get-well" business. Few shrinks actually care whether anyone gets better... Exercise will do Holden much more good than psychotherapy and psychotropics. For most people, that is the true diagnosis- no matter the sickness - but that doesn't make anyone any $...
BTW, if you really have an elephant, then what are you worried about a woman for? Women come and go. But elephants???
Holden, I hope I didn't make you feel uncomfortable by asking you that. The reason I asked is because I am also an only child and much of what you said, I have felt numerous times over the past few years and even as recent as a few months ago. Treeman is right about working out your body and mind. Believe me, it does wonders to help you focus and build confidence in yourself. Another thing that helped me put things in perspective was reading "The Art of Happiness" by the Dalai Lama. It helped me start thinking of things on a more simple level, so I wouldn't try to analyze every detail of my life which was driving me crazy!
Holden, I've been through a long period of depression as well. I too like you had a great childhood. I too have thought of suicide, but decided I would only hurt a bunch of people, and I'm the type of person who cares about other people (and I'm religious). I too have gone through a very bad break-up. My advice doesn't "help" much, but it puts the idea in your head, that you can figure a way out of the rut you're in. That piece of advice is, like with anything else in your life, you will come to a "realization" about things. I used to be as shy as you. I'm not now. I still am quiet around people I don't know, especially in a social setting. But, one day something just clicked in my head. I asked myself what exactly was it that I was laying awake at night worrying about (what I said, what I didn't say, what should I have said, what did they mean by what they said, etc.) I finally asked myself what was the worst thing that could happen if I said or did something stupid. I came up with an answer that didn't include any death or serious injury. That made me realize that I was really worrying about inconsequential things. I just "got over" my worrying shyness. I also think slowing down on the alcohol and/or drugs is a good idea for the time being. Some people need professional help. My opinion is that most who actually do get it, don't necessarily "need" it. I hope your invitation to come visit you and your animals is still valid later in the Spring or Summer, because I'm thinking I really would like to take my brother and maybe a friend and head up there. Lemme know if you were serious.
DREAMer just described most of the symptoms of SAD (Social Anxiety Disorder). My advice: Tell someone to go to hell in person. I'm sure there's someone you want to... Just do it. One little tidbit most psychoanalysts won't tell the general public is that nearly everyone has SAD. It's actually normal. But we all go on living with it, thinking that we're somehow abnormal... And the second we land in a shrink's chair, we're good for a year's salary - 20-80K, depending on where you live. The only real antidote is to be assertive. Yeah, that sounds simplistic, but there it is. Do not ignore your impulses.
A couple of points here. Most of these types of statements are self fulfilling loops. You get in groups and are shy. You stay quiet in groups and get nervous. Therefore you start thinking your bad in groups. So you get more shy. The loop continues. The drinking thing puts a bit of a block into that feedback loop, but it only helps you to channel your needs through a self destructive pathway. It's good to aleviate the symptoms but won't affect a cure. This is going to sound silly and you'll feel goofy doing it, but I really suggest, if you can, try 'editing' your negative thoughts. Every time you catch yourself thinking one of these things, think about one tangable example of something good about yourself. I'm not going to pretend like I know you, but I have yet to meet someone who has such deep emotions that doesn't have many outstanding qualities that they've chosen to ignore in themselves. I'm sure you're no different. The bottom line, though is that once you've convinced your self that you 'are' this way, and the patterns are set, you really need to 'work' to break these patterns down. Let me give you another outside observation. Nobody's 'scared' of the quiet guy. I promise that the way you percieve everybody's opinion of you is better than you think it is. Honestly, it's sad to say, but most people are pretty self-absorbed and are not really intrested in the things any of us have to say unless it directly bothers them. Ask yourself - are these people 'friends' or 'aquantances'. When I was in the same situation you find yourself in, just after college, I looked around my fraternity house and realised that 90% of these people who were my 'friends' didn't care about my problems. There's nothing wrong with this, everyone needs both friends and aqauintances. But, at this point I decided that I would be better moving back home with my recently divorced mother, who actually cared about me as a person. That's another thing - sometimes an environmental change or a schedule change will help break the paterns. Man, I'm about to cry right now, thinking about everything about the love of my life that was the same. It's like this little bit of scar tissue from some big horrible accident, like a Shark bite that heals up, but hurts every time you touch it for the rest of your life. Ok - sad and embarasing admission time now. I remember when I was in my version of where you are now, I spent several weeks on end sitting in the dirty, grimey nasty old dungeon that was the basement of my fraternity house, smoking pack after pack of cigarettes, starring at a bad cable TV signal in the dead of a real midwestern winter with no heat. At one point, In the throws of rumination, I ran a box cutter accross about 3 inches of the back of my hand, not in a suicidal gesture, but a getsture akin to hitting the wall when your mad at yourself or embarased. I can still see the scar, 10 years later. Here's something to think about: A number of basic theories of depression describe it as external anger made passive and turned in on yourself. I think that if you look deep inside, you'll find that somewhere in there there's a tremendous resevoir of anger for her right beside the love for how she treated you and what she took away. Even worse, not only is it difficult to accept that you are mad at this person you love as well, much of this anger is probably somewhat irrational! I wouldn't worry about that, see that its there and try to work on getting it out. Write a letter to her that you never send, explaining to her how much you hate her and how much you love her. I also agree in theory with treeman's suggestion, or something similar. Through yourself into some goal that isn't necessarily social, and persue it. Weight lifting's great, because it'll also release hormones and such that'll brighten your mood, and you can 'attack' the bench press, etc with your anger. If that doesn't work for you, just find something that you can pursue with anger. I also found eventualy, that for some reason I was so attached to my love, that I eventualy came to look on her as I imagine a junkie in rehab feels about heroin. I decided that even getting a telephone call from her once every 3 weeks, while it felt so good, it'd send me into a downward spiral that I'd take a week getting out of. After about 2 years of this, I decided that I had to give her up cold turkey. Even now that I'm sitting here thinking about her part of me wishes that she'd come ask me to follow her away. This same part of me would have absolutely no qualms leaving my girlfriend of 4 years to follow her whim. Thankfully, most of me knows better, but if I spent too much time near her, I'd slowly become weaker. I really wish well for you holden. As I said earlier, I'm not going to pretend like I know you or anything, but I do share what I imagine is a similar experince, as I imagine many of us do. Though this might sound sappy or something, I promise that I'm not going to be able to get this out of my mind, and I'll be thinking about you and wishing you well for the forseable future. BTW, I recant. Promise that you'll take good care of your elephant, and I'll retract all of the nasty stuff I said. I'm sure that someone that cares as much as you will do everything humanly possible for the elephant.
Well if I ever feel like venting, I'll be sure to post here for some free psychoanalytical advice from treeman. (no sarcasm intended) BTW Pimp, I too am an only child and also have the "Art of Happiness" book sitting somewhere, just haven't sat down and read it yet...
I actually agree with about 98% of Ottomaton's post. Endorphin release will do wonders for you... And if you've really got an elephant (I still find that hard to believe), then stroke it. They're intelligent and emotional animals, and I fully believe in the concept of harmonic therapy with intelligent animals... Dogs do it for me. I'm here for you, BGM.
