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Texas killed an innocent man - What should it do about it?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by SamFisher, Sep 10, 2009.

  1. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann

    This is a long article which recaps the Cameron Todd Willingham saga.

    To briefly summarize this guy's house burned down with his 3 kids inside in Corsicana. The evidence against him was purely circumstnce, and consisted of essentially the arson investigators findings, and a jailhouse informant who claimed to overhear a confession. In addiion there was some incredibly dubious testimony put on about his mental state, etc, and the trial was run badly, and the guy had zero effective legal representation.

    Fast forward, eventually the jailhouse informant (a drug addict with psychiatric problems) fully recanted, and the arson investigators findings were found to be complete garbage and based on junk science and old wive's tales. Apparently, arson investigation did not really modernize and become "CSI" like until about 10 years ago. Basically the top arson investigators in the country all concurred that, according to modern methods, the evidence used to prove arson was nonexistent.

    Of course, thanks to Texas' lengthy and costly, but if you are an appellee, ultimately futile death penalty clemency/appeals process in which defendants almost never, ever, ever, ever win, he basically had no chance, and eventually he got the needle

    Based on what I have read, it is pretty much overwhelmingly clear that this guy was innocent, or at a minimum, deserved a new trial where his victory would have been a near certaintly.

    My question is what does Texas do in a case like this? The answer is probably nothing, but I find the fact that the state deliberately murdered one of its citizens wrongfully to be incredibly disturbing and an incredibly compelling argument against the death penalty, especially the perverse and cynical way it is applied in Texas.
     
  2. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    The death penalty is not morally wrong in my eyes, but until we can be 100% sure we are executing guilty criminals EVERY-SINGLE-TIME without bias and without error, then it is criminal to allow the death penalty to be used. If you execute one innocent man, the entire system is a failure and everyone who had a hand in allowing the death penalty to be used is a murderer.

    What can you do to turn back the hands of time? Last time I checked, nothing. Especially when it comes to matters of the state, life, and death.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Posthumous exoneration, public apology, restitution based on $25,000/year from the time of sentencing to probable life expectancy.
     
  4. Cannonball

    Cannonball Contributing Member

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    This sums up my opinion on the death penalty exactly.
     
  5. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    LOL -- sorry, I read exhumation at first, and I was picturing something pretty macabre.
     
  6. ClutchCityReturns

    ClutchCityReturns Contributing Member

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    Sam,

    Not to take things off topic, but do you feel similarly about life sentences? Consider, for example, a man who is wrongly convicted, spends the remainder of his life in jail, and then dies there. Is that any less disturbing to you?

    Personally, I don't think it's any better. But, that leaves us with few options for punishing "criminals" that are convicted of heinous crimes, doesn't it?
     
  7. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    I think its more about the fact that dead people can't be exonerated.

    If they die of natural causes before being set free, then that sucks, but at least it wasn't premature.
     
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    No, it is not any less bad...if the innocent person is not exonerated during his lifetime. However, if Cameron Todd Willingham were serving a life sentence, he would likely be free by now, which I think he would have appreciated.
     
  9. Cannonball

    Cannonball Contributing Member

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    It's not a perfect solution, but I find it less disturbing. Living, even in prision, is still better than being executed. And just going by Sam's summary, it seems as if this guy would have had his conviction overturned had he not been executed.
     
  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Unfortunately not much. If I recall correctly didn't the USSC rule that innocence isn't necessarily a reason to overrule a death penalty as long as due process was carried out?

    I like Pouhe's suggestion and that is the most I think that can be done in this case.
     
  11. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    $25 thousand a year? That's pretty low on the "expected earnings" scale.

    "Oh sorry Mrs. Fisher, turns out we wrongly executed your husband for murdering that young woman a few years back. We figure that's worth an apology and $200,000. Hope you feel better!"
     
  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    The criminal justice system could use some Six Sigma.
     
  13. ClutchCityReturns

    ClutchCityReturns Contributing Member

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    My reply wasn't in opposition to any of Sam's remarks. His post just sparked a thought in my head and I wanted to get an opinion on it. I guess it was more of a question about what we should do instead of the death penalty (considering that life sentences are far from a perfect solution).
     
  14. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Contributing Member
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    I've been hearing about this case lately and the most disturbing aspect to me is that there was an overwhelming amount of evidence of his innocence brought forth while he was still alive and the authorities responsible for evaluating his appeal just ignored it. How do people like this (and this ulitmately includes Governor Goodhair) live with themselves?
     
  15. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Once you are found guilty by a jury of your peers in this state it is very unlikely you will be set free.
     
  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    I believe their general reaction is one of "pass the buck" and therefore they collectively excuse themselves - the appeals courts assume the district courts are correct, the district courts assume if they mess up somebody will fix it, all the way on up to the parole board and the governor himself. Then basically everybody can just shrug their shoulders and move on.
     
  17. Dan B.

    Dan B. Member

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    I think that the problem with death penalty convictions is that they are brought too often. I think if someone is charged with the death penalty and found innocent after their death, the prosecutor should be tried with murder. They would have their day in court to explain why they chose to ignore exculpatory evidence (if there is any). But the potential litigation would certainly cause them to carefully consider whether to levy such harsh punishment, which is exactly how it should be IMO.
     
  18. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Bingo.

    They all get to say "I don't hold any blame in this because I was just accepting the opinion of the ones who viewed the case before me."
     
  19. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    You'd have to be able to meet a pretty high burden of proof. You'd have to be able to prove that the prosecutor maliciously ignored evidence and sought the death penalty when he knew the defendant was innocent.

    FWIW, I believe that right now you can bring those charges.
     
  20. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Contributing Member

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    I'm against the Death Penalty, but I have heard about this case before and I'll have to read this New Yorker article before I comment fully, but in the mean time what I've read before didn't leave me in a place where I thought this guy was innocent. The multiple stories he gave about how the fire was started. The bit about one of his daughters waking him to alert him to the fire yet she was found in bed. Also the first officer on the scene found him trying to move his car while his daughters were still in the house.
     

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