Ok...this is good news. But here's what freaks out most Americans. How in the hell was support EVER this high for Bin Laden in these countries?? How is it still that high, even after the drops in support??? We're told over and over again that this is a tiny segment of the population that feels this way. Similar to right-wingers who identify themselves as Christians and blow up abortion clinics. This tends to suggest otherwise. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050714/ts_nm/muslims_binladen_dc Support for bin Laden falls in Muslim countries By Alan Elsner Thu Jul 14, 2:10 PM ET WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Support for Osama bin Laden and suicide bombings have fallen sharply in much of the Muslim world, according to a multicountry poll released on Thursday. The survey by the Pew Research Center examined public opinion in six predominantly Muslim nations: Morocco, Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia, Jordan and Lebanon. It also examined views in nine North American and European countries as well as in India and China. In all, more than 17,000 people were questioned either by telephone of face-to-face. "There's declining support for terrorism in the Muslim countries and support for Osama bin Laden is declining. There's also less support for suicide bombings," said Pew Center director Andrew Kohut. "This is good news, but still there are substantial numbers who support bin Laden in some of these countries," he told a news conference. In Morocco, 26 percent of the public now say they have a lot or some confidence in bin Laden, down from 49 percent in a similar poll two years ago. In Lebanon, where both Muslims and Christians took part in the survey, only 2 percent expressed some confidence in the Saudi-born al Qaeda leader, down from 14 percent in 2003. In Turkey, bin Laden's support has fallen to 7 percent from 15 percent in the past two years. In Indonesia, it has dropped to 35 percent from 58 percent. However, in Jordan, confidence in bin Laden, who took responsibility for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States and many other attacks, rose to 60 percent from 55 percent. In Pakistan, it went to 51 percent from 45 percent. A similar picture emerged when respondents were asked whether suicide bombings were justifiable. In Morocco, 13 percent said they often or sometimes could be justified, down from 40 percent in 2004. MORE JORDANIANS SUPPORT BOMBINGS In Indonesia, 15 percent expressed that view, down from 27 percent in the summer of 2002. Support for suicide bombings also fell in Pakistan and dropped dramatically in Lebanon. However, support rose in Jordan, to 57 percent from 43 percent in 2002. Kohut noted there had been devastating attacks on civilians in Indonesia, Morocco and Turkey in recent years and a rash of assassinations and bombings recently in Lebanon. Both in western countries and the Muslim world, respondents expressed fears about Islamic extremism. Seventy-three percent in Morocco and 52 percent in Pakistan saw Islamic extremism as a threat to their country. The figure was 84 percent in Russia, 78 percent in Germany, and an identical 70 percent in Britain and the United States. The poll was taken well before last week's bombings in London. When asked what caused Islamic extremism, 40 percent in Lebanon and 38 percent in Jordan blamed U.S. policies and influence; in Morocco, Pakistan and Turkey, respondents were more likely to blame poverty, unemployment or poor education. Despite terrorism fears, majorities in Britain, the United States, France, Canada and Russia and pluralities in Spain and Poland expressed favorable views about Muslims. But in Germany and the Netherlands, opinion swung to an unfavorable view. Fifty-one percent of those surveyed in the Netherlands expressed an unfavorable view of Muslims. In Germany, 47 percent were unfavorable, compared with 40 percent who expressed favorable views. Anti-Jewish sentiment was overwhelming in the Muslim countries. In Lebanon, 100 percent of Muslims and 99 percent of Christians said they had a very unfavorable view of Jews, while 99 percent of Jordanians also viewed Jews very unfavorably.
Playing Devil's Advocate, why are religious leaders forced to ascribe to the values of peace? If the people around them are suffering, and they've seemingly exhausted the peaceful methods they've read, then wouldn't it be easier to be inclined to a violent or intolerant stance? America exports the good life in the media, and then expects dirt poor countries to adhere to their faith or trust in our foreign actions. I'm not blaming the US, but I have a feeling they think we're rubbing it in and expecting some tolerance from them.
This to me, althought put at the end of the report, is most troubling and alarming. Israel better do more than what it's doing currently under Sharon on its part to ease the ME tension. 100%, 99%, and 99% unfavorable are hellish numbers. I understand there are many very progressive Jews in USA - unfortunately they are ignored by mass media.
With Islam, for example, its mainstream proponents are those who ascribe this push for tolerance, peace etc. They aren't FORCED to do it, they do it as a matter of course (if what we've been hearing on the bbs is true anyway - although Max's post cast serious doubt on this).
Germans are some of the most honest people you will ever meet. In fact, many times they take it farther than what Americans consider polite. For example, in Germany it's considered almost polite to correct somebody, since you're viewed as helping them out so they don't make the same mistake again. In the US correcting somebody is usually not considered polite. I hate to use broad brush stereotypes, but in general Germans are much less pc than Americans. I can completely see that when presented with enough data points to the contrary, a majority of Germans will view Muslims unfavorably. Bombing people in the name of Allah won't score points or sympathy with anybody (perhaps with the exception of the American liberal...)
Geez. I actually was agreeing with you. Way to launch one in there at the end. You know bigtexxx, you will die young if you harbor this much hatred in yourself. Germans are much less PC but (using stereotypes), Germans are also pretty racist.
???? Where did this come from? Kros, you seemed to have tossed that one in there without backing it up, and that's not a claim that can be made like that. Calling a people racist better be backed up by some supporting details (from the last 60 years, btw...). It's easy to toss that card without thinking...
I wouldn't call them racist any more than I would generalize by saying that the West in general has a proven track record (history wise) of racism against other peoples. But, Germany has the stain of the "Holocaust" on their history. Killing 6 million+ people based on their ethnic/religious background does not only reflect racism, it's genocide. But that was the "old" Germany, I am not sure that it's fair to call Germans of today "racist", I think that's a general problem that exists in many societies around the world, especially in the West. Yes I know that most Europeans oppose immigration, but I am not sure that's based entirely on ethnic bias.
I cant prove it, but i can tell you i have felt some racism at frankfurt airport and on lufthansa airlines. Not once, but repeatedly been given ugly looks and been spoken to as a lower class citizen.
Did you grow out your beard and wear Star Wars clothes? It also doesn't help if you rap about terrorism.
no, not at the time , and even if i did, it doesnt give anyone the right to discriminate and give others different treatment than the norm. are you accusing me of rapping about terrorism? what a scrub
Some more denunciations and calls to action against extremism/terrorism, which is good to hear from two of the more respected leaders in the Muslim world... http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/7/9/nation/11444593&sec=nation PM: Fight terrorism with more resolve KUALA LUMPUR: Malaysia will continue to steadfastly support the international community’s efforts to fight terrorism, which has become one of the greatest security challenges confronting the world today, said Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi. In his condolence message to his British counterpart Tony Blair in the wake of the London bomb blasts, Abdullah said Malaysia strongly condemned the cowardly acts of terrorism. “I am greatly saddened to learn of the explosions that hit the London public transport system yesterday (Thursday), claiming so many lives and seriously injuring many others. “On behalf of the Government and people of Malaysia, I would like to extend our deepest sympathies and condolences to the government and people of Britain and to the families and loved ones of the victims of this horrific attack against innocent people,” Abdullah said in the message released by Wisma Putra. He said the violence reminded everyone of the great need for the international community to unite to fight terrorism. “We must work together with greater resolve and determination to deal with this problem and to win the fight against terrorism so that our people can live in a safe and peaceful world,” he said. MCA president Datuk Seri Ong Ka Ting condemned the London bombings, saying that they were acts of extreme hatred for humankind that should not be condoned. “My heart goes out to those who have died or were injured in the blasts and their loved ones,” he said in a statement yesterday. He said the bombings showed a lack of consideration and respect for human life, adding that the ill-intended actions were cruel as they were targeted at innocent civilians who had nothing to do with the causes that the acts were purporting to resolve. This kind of “blind belief in violence” could not be used to determine solutions to disagreements in world issues, and no one should condone it, Ong added. And another one from the Malaysian PM... http://english.people.com.cn/200507/21/eng20050721_197564.html Malaysia to uphold image of Islam as religion of peace: PM Malaysia would make efforts to promote the image of Islam as a religion that advocates peace and fights terrorism, Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi said on Thursday. The image of Islam had been tarnished since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in New York and further smeared by following terrorist acts, including the latest bombings in London on July 7, Badawi said in his keynote speech at the 56th General Assembly of the ruling United Malays National Organization (UMNO). Badawi, who was also UMNO President, noted that he had three missions to accomplish under the international situation, according to reports of Bernama news agency. First, the international community, especially the major powers in the world, should be enlightened on the core issues that led to terrorism, among them were the policies of the super power toward Palestine and Iraq. Second, as chairman of the Organization of Islamic Conference ( OIC), Malaysia should take the responsibility to explain to the international community that Islam was a religion of peace and it opposed terrorism. Third, Badawi said he, as Prime Minister of Malaysia, was duty- bound to show to the world that Malaysia was a modern Islamic country and could be trusted as a trade partner and a safe place to invest and visit. Malaysia, as a standard bearer of moderate Islam, must make sure that it would never become a breeding ground of Muslim extremists, Badawi stressed. About 2,500 party members attend the three-day assembly, which is the last general assembly for UMNO during the Eighth Malaysia Plan (from 2001 to 2005). UMNO leads the party coalition National Front, which has been ruling Malaysia since its independence in 1957. Source: Xinhua
I will just give you the links and you can click on them, it is easier that way... This one is from a televised speech given by Musharraf, President of Pakistan. I very much like the way he called out Britain for its hypocrisy in blaming Pakistan for everything that went on in London, ignoring the fact that the British have been far too lenient and looking the other way from home-bred extremism it allowed to spread unabated within its own backyard. As I said before, Britain is likely the biggest harbor of terrorists in the world. http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/07/6b821555-793c-4128-a6ad-f61b51591d6a.html http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-07/21/content_3250891.htm
You'll like this article then, http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?story_id=4174660 I'd make a topic out of it, but I hate summarizing. It's pertinent to our concerns of local sleeper cells and what typical profile they hold. The Economist breaks it down into recent arrivals, second-generation members of immigrant communities, and converts.
