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Documents confirm U.S. hid detainees from Red Cross

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by gifford1967, Jun 18, 2008.

  1. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Contributing Member
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    We can all thank the Bush Administration for putting the U.S. on the same level as third world dictatorships. Wooooohoooo.


    McClatchy Washington Bureau
    Posted on Tue, Jun. 17, 2008

    Documents confirm U.S. hid detainees from Red Cross
    Warren P. Strobel | McClatchy Newspapers
    last updated: June 17, 2008 08:49:47 PM

    WASHINGTON — The U.S. military hid the locations of suspected terrorist detainees and concealed harsh treatment to avoid the scrutiny of the International Committee of the Red Cross, according to documents that a Senate committee released Tuesday.

    "We may need to curb the harsher operations while ICRC is around. It is better not to expose them to any controversial techniques," Lt. Col. Diane Beaver, a military lawyer who's since retired, said during an October 2002 meeting at the Guantanamo Bay prison to discuss employing interrogation techniques that some have equated with torture. Her comments were recorded in minutes of the meeting that were made public Tuesday. At that same meeting, Beaver also appeared to confirm that U.S. officials at another detention facility — Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan — were using sleep deprivation to "break" detainees well before then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld approved that technique. "True, but officially it is not happening," she is quoted as having said.

    A third person at the meeting, Jonathan Fredman, the chief counsel for the CIA's Counterterrorism Center, disclosed that detainees were moved routinely to avoid the scrutiny of the ICRC, which keeps tabs on prisoners in conflicts around the world.

    "In the past when the ICRC has made a big deal about certain detainees, the DOD (Defense Department) has 'moved' them away from the attention of the ICRC," Fredman said, according to the minutes.

    The document, along with two dozen others, shows that top administration officials pushed relentlessly for tougher interrogation methods in the belief that terrorism suspects were resisting interrogation.

    It's unclear from the documents whether the Pentagon moved the detainees from one place to another or merely told the ICRC they were no longer present at a facility.

    Fredman of the CIA also appeared to be advocating the use of techniques harsher than those authorized by military field guides "If the detainee dies, you're doing it wrong," the minutes report Fredman saying at one point.

    Beaver testified that she didn't recall making the comment about avoiding "harsher operations" while ICRC representatives were around, but she said she probably was referring to the need to conduct extended periods of interrogations of detainees without disruption.

    The minutes of the Guantanamo meeting were among 25 documents released Tuesday by Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee and is leading a probe of the origins of cruel treatment of detainees in President Bush's "war on terrorism."

    The administration overrode or ignored objections from all four military services and from criminal investigators, who warned that the practices would imperil their ability to prosecute the suspects. In one prophetic e-mail on Oct. 28, 2002, Mark Fallon, then the deputy commander of the Pentagon's Criminal Investigation Task Force, wrote a colleague: "This looks like the kind of stuff Congressional hearings are made of. ... Someone needs to be considering how history will look back at this." The objections from the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines prompted Navy Capt. Jane Dalton, legal adviser to the then-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Richard Myers, to begin a review of the proposed techniques.

    But Dalton, who's now retired, told the hearing Tuesday that the review was aborted quickly. Myers, she said, took her aside and told her that then-Defense Department general counsel William Haynes "does not want this ... to proceed." Haynes testified that he didn't recall the objections of the four uniformed services.

    Officials in Rumsfeld's office and at Guantanamo developed the techniques they sought by reverse-engineering a long-standing military program designed to train U.S. soldiers and aviators to resist interrogation if they're captured.

    The program, known as Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape, was never meant to guide U.S. interrogation of foreign detainees.

    An official in Haynes' office sought information about SERE as early as July 2002, the documents show. Two months later, a delegation from Guantanamo attended SERE training at Fort Bragg, N.C. Levin said, "The truth is that senior officials in the United States government sought information on aggressive techniques, twisted the law to create the appearance of their legality and authorized their use against detainees." The documents confirm that a delegation of senior administration lawyers visited Guantanamo in September 2002 for briefings on intelligence-gathering there. The delegation included David Addington, a top aide to Vice President Dick Cheney; Haynes; acting CIA counsel John Rizzo; and Michael Chertoff, then the head of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division and now the homeland security secretary. Few of the Republicans at Tuesday's hearing defended the Bush administration’s detainee programs. Guidance provided by administration lawyers "will go down in history as some of the most irresponsible and shortsighted legal analysis ever provided to our nation's military intelligence communities," said Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C..

    Regarding the ICRC, the United States long has complained that other countries such as China or the old Soviet Union prevented independent access to prisoners or made their conditions look better when outsiders were inspecting. The Bush administration appears to have engaged in similar practices, however.

    Bernard Barrett, the ICRC’s Washington spokesman, said, "We knew that we did not always have full access to all detainees. It was a fairly serious issue." “It’s been addressed,” he said. “We are confident we now have access to all detainees at Guantanamo.”

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/v-print/story/41394.html
     
  2. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    "They hate us for our freedoms"


    O RLY?
     
  3. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    I think we should use boot torture and iron maiden on these guys (just watched this on history channel) they will talk real quickly! Oh and the Chinese water torture is pretty good as well.
     
  4. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    This was done in our name.

    And there's now no doubt that the whole torture regime started in the higher reaches of this administration.

    Here's another article that lays it all out... the entire article is chilling, the bolded parts are devastating...

    As damning a chronicle of the banality of evil as I have ever read... and much more poignant because it came out of our system. This is nothing short of war crimes... and one case where Nazi references are not out of order.

    While we knew it was happening and we basically knew how it was happening, I have a tremendous sadness seeing it all laid out in one short article.

    I can't believe we're talking about MY country.
     
    #4 rimrocker, Jun 18, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2008
  5. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    we live in a post 9/11 world, now rimmy. :(
     
  6. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    That really pisses me off. Bin Laden has won. He has robbed from this country a great deal. I don't think he could have done it without George W.
     
  7. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    I concur. :mad:
     
  8. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    HORSE crap, nothing has changed because of 9-11 other than higher security at airports....

    well, nothing SHOULD have changed...

    DD
     
  9. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    Ok, 20 minute time out for an obviously broken sarcasm meter.

    Man, ya'll act like you've never read any of my posts before.
     
  10. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    Obama's already on record for reviewing every Bush executive order within his first 100 days and rescinding and revising where needed.

    I sincerely hope he then instructs his Attorney General to pursue legal action against members of the Bush administration for all illegality.
     
  11. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    I've said it before and it pains me to say it again, but we're going to need the equivalent of a Truth Commission... and I hope Congress understand there's going to be lots of shredding and hard disk rewrites between November and January.
     
  12. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    War criminals... crimes against humanity...

     
  13. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    QUESTION: Bush's Attorney General until Obama puts in his own guy. . .right?
    [confirmation hearings etc]

    Rocket River
     
  14. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    Nope... he's out the day Bush is out. Obama can name an acting until one is confirmed.
     
  15. Major

    Major Member

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    Why does the military hate the military? :confused:
     
  16. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    We don't know the half of it yet!

    :mad:
     
  17. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    Speaking of disgusting abuses to the constitution and ethical standards, today is the day that the house votes on the telecom immunity bill.

    Glenn describes this atrocity very well:

    They hate us for our freedoms. Remember?

    EDIT: And it's been passed. Any rep who voted for this has effectively committed treason as far as I'm concerned. The government just endorsed violating the bill of rights.
     
    #17 rhadamanthus, Jun 20, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2008
  18. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Anyone still wondering why I've been posting Impeach Bush? He shouldn't be allowed to walk away from soiling our constitution and our reputation around the world.

    I have a question... can he pardon himself before leaving office?



    Impeach Bush.
     
  19. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    This was congress. The vote was 293 for. We should impeach BOTH PARTIES.

    EDIT: roll call is still not available. I will be curious to see who voted for or against.

    EDIT THE 2ND: It's up now. Check the link.
     
    #19 rhadamanthus, Jun 20, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2008
  20. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    The fools. I hope the Senate can block it.



    Impeach Bush.
     

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