No mor Ming talk, lets talk 15th pick.

Long time no post! Good to be back!!

I'm assuming we draft Yao with the number 1.

I would be quitely hoping that Jared Jeffries falls to number 15. I think he'd be a pretty nice pick up there as someone to slide into the lineup over the next few years.

The other guy I'd like to see us take is either Tskits or Nachbar (more likely that Nachbar is available) - they are both very intriguing (probably because I know very little of either but see how well other Europeans are playing around the league!)

Of course it's entirely possible all 3 of them are goen by 15, and in that case I'd probably want to look for the 'best possible banger' as a backup, and Amare Stoudamire seems to fit that bill.

 

Assuming we pick Yao-

Our only true need would be a SF.

Therefore what I'd do is acquire. Lots of ways to do it-
KT/#15 for Artest or Mike Miller or Hedo Turkoglu
KT/#15 to move up, draft Tskitishvili at ~9 (that is, if his stock doesn't SKYROCKET into the top 5 like I think it may) or Butler, or Qyntel Woods, if his defense and shot don't suck.

or stay at #15, and draft Nachbar, or if he slips a little bit, Jeffries. I think Nachbar, based on what I've heard would fit our team a little better, and I'd worry about JJeffries' lateral quickness at the 3. Or we could trade down, pick up something extra, and target a 20s type of pick like Chris Jeffries, Rod Grizzard, or Tayshaun Prince.

However, if Stoudemire or Hilario were there, they'd have to be considered because they'd make our front line tough. In that case, you either use KT straight up for a SF, or pick up an extra pick for one of the aftorementioned 20s picks, or lure Lewis via free agency.

 

Go for the big banger. Let's get that need out of the way once and for all if possible. Of course T****z and Nachbar are big enough to sort of be bangers.

I might be the only one, but I think Kenny T is a decent enough small forward, especially when you have big Yao and Eddie to pick up the slack when the occasional super quick small forward blows by him.

 

I posted in another thread that with Rice on board for two more years, we could do with a 3 by committee for another year. If we draft Yao we're wide open at 15. Best Available Player time for me. I think I would take Stoudemire if he's there. From what I've heard, unlike Taylor and Griffin, he wants to play inside, even play the 5. But he won't be there. Neither will Jeffries, Hilario, or Tshkitishvili. Kareem Rush and Tayshaun Prince are the probable suspects as far as I'm concerned. I think Prince is a Rudy T kind of pick. Senior leadership, good passer and defender, team player, but able to take over a big game like Reggie Miller. (Kind of an anti-Yarborough. He gets smaller and smaller the bigger the game gets.) I'm just worried that Prince isn't quick enough to play 3 in the NBA. In college, he played his best at the 4 spot. Still, I'd try him out.

I also like the Mike Miller trade, although I wonder if he could play on a team that includes so many other scorers. Is Mo Taylor considered damaged goods now and untradeable? I would love to do a Rashard Lewis/Mo Taylor S&T with Seattle, possibly involving the #15. They would probably consider Taylor an upgrade over Vin Baker, and they did almost sign him two sumers ago. Lineup:

5: Cato/Ming
4: Griffin/Thomas
3: Lewis/Rice/Morris
2: Mobley/Torres
1: Francis/Norris/Brown

That team should make the playoffs, even in the west.

 

I think if Hilario or Stoudemire are ther at #15 you take one preferably NENE

I don't think either will be there though.

Nachbar is my realistic pick at #15. Nachbar is the reason that Nick Schtick is riding the pine in Europe, they both play SF on the same team.

 

What's so great about Amare? I've only watched him play in the McDonald's All-Star game, so I really don't know. Someone compare him with Kwame Brown. I keep hearing descriptions of Amare, and all I see is another Kwame Brown with maybe the ability to do his own laundry or shop for his own groceries.

 

I've read he played Jermaine O'Neal pretty well and rejected him 3 times in one game. Based on this alone, I'd take him.

 

All it takes is one team to like you in pre-draft workouts and the hype begins... Orlando's Gabriel says Stoudamire is a stud, and thinks he'll go top 6...All to say that there's no way he's still around at 15...

If the Rockets want him they could maybe deal with Phoenix and move up to #9, but even then they'd have to keep their fingers crossed...

I think Hilario could be around at #15, but I'm not sure he offers any more than Taylor or Griffin...

Instead I'd trade down a few slots and take Arkansas State's Jason Jennings (C)....

And if the Rockets want to draft an overseas playa high, I'd take my chances with Nikoloz over Yao in a heartbeat...

Otherwise look forward to Yao running off the court during warm-ups of the first Rockets/Lakers game yelling, "AAAAhhhhhh, Shaq eese Godzirra!!! Run fo yo livessss!!!!!!!!!!"

 

Exactly. People tend to forget this.

Yeah, I know, in the Euro leagues the young guys have to pay their dues to the older guys and Nik joined the team mid-season. But if he's as talented as people say he is, and Nachbar kept Nik from taking the starting job on a team that made the Euro Final Four, then Nachbar must be pretty damn good.

The more I read about him, the more I think he might be our best pick at 15. He's got size (6-8, 220), ball-handling skills that Rudy loves, and a good jumper. Plus he's been on a winning team against top-level competition. My only concern is his D. We really need a good defender at the 3, not a one-dimensional gunner.

But I wouldn't be surprised to see Nachbar's stock rise and us have to trade up to get him.

 

Just b/c Kwame Brown did absolutely NOTHING this season does not mean he won't be a superstar down the road. I would trade picks and players for him in a heartbeat. And anyone compared to Brown is going to have game, whether it be now or a little later. The bottom line is that it takes high schoolers quite a bit more time to develop a game than college players because:

A.) Coaching is about winning in the high school game. Kwame or Amare were probablly centers in hs and were told to just stay down low and dunk everythink. I'm 6'6" and played pf in hs and this is what the coaches wanted me to do. So there is no time to develop a low post finesse game. Other fundamentals are not firmly entrenched in them, they are probablly very raw and need time to develop a solid game.

B.) The intimidation factor is probablly immense. A high schooler now finds himself on the court with bigger, stronger, faster competition; not to mention superstar basketball players they have probablly grown up admiring.

C.) They may be physically labeled as men, but that still won't prepare them for the everyday pounding they will take, and the strenuous NBA length seasons ahead of them.

D.) A high schooler's mind is hardly developed. I know I wised up after a few years of college. Nonetheless, there is something about the college experience that is hard for a young NBA-aspiring player to pass on. Besides growing in mental capacity, one grows to discover himself, and who he is as a person. These are qualities that will undoubtedly add confidence on and off the court. This is also a time that one learns independence from his family. It's very difficult to do at first, so think about how hard it might be to do in addition to being a rookie in the NBA.

This subject is not really touchy at all for me, so I'd like to hear disagreements. However, I started thinking about it and formulated a few points that would help many of you and myself understand the tough transition from hs to the NBA.

No highschooler should be written off after his first NBA season.

 

Top 10, won't be at #15 - Ming, Williams, Gooden, Dunleavy, Butler, Wilcox, Borchardt, Nik T, Wagner, Q Woods

Next Best 5 - Maybyner "Nene" Hilario, Jared Jefferies, Kareem Rush, Amare Stoudamire, Frank Williams

Now, at #15, you have to take the best player avaliable, even if it is Frank Williams, another PG, who is better than Moochie IMO.

 

I disagree partially with Greg #3's assertion...

I think you can safely say that the top 7 is: Ming, Jay, Dunleavy, Gooden, Wilcox, Butler, and Wagner...

However, I think that both Amare Stoudamire and Hilario have an opportunity to bump Nikoloz, Qyntel, and Borchardt around and maybe out of the top 10...

In addition to players like Rush, Franie Williams and Jared Jeffries that might be available around #15; he forgot to mention Melvin Ely and Chris Marcus...

The Rockets would definitely pick either of these big men over a point guard, even if they did land Yao with #1.... In fact if you told Dawson right now that Marcus would be available at #15, he'd probably be a lot less nervous picking Yao...

In fact, he might even give Dunleavy more consideration with that kind of a Psychic-Friends/Miss Cleo tip...

 

Kings and Pacers are both set at the power forward spot, and probably wouldn't move Turkoglu or Artest. I'm not so sure either will start, but neither team seems inclined to move them.

Mike Miller, however, seemed lost last year. The Magic opted to start Pat Garrity last year, and they did just fine. Now, if Miller was lost last year, what will it be like with Grant Hill actually playing? It would be pointless to have 3 SFs in the rotation next year, and the Magic don't want Horace Grant anymore, giving them a need at PF...
Damn. This trade sounds great to me! (Assuming we get a legit center, Ming or not, with the #1)

 

After summing up all the mock drafts here's what the conclusions are:

Tier 1 (1-2): Yao, Jay
Tier 2 (3-10): Dunleavy, Wagner, Gooden, Wilcox, Borchardt, Butler, Hilario, Tzika. None of this will be available at 15. Hilario likely won't slip by the Cavs at 6, and even if Tzika slips out of the top 10 Milwakee is said to be taking him at 13.

Tier 3 (11-19): j. jefires, Amare Stoud., Bostjan Nachbar, Kareem Rush, Haislip, Ely, Q. Woods, Chris Marcus, Frank Williams. We should be taking one of these.

here's how I rate them.

If we go by need (SF), there are three SF here. In the order I would take them:


1. Jared Jefires. I haven't seen many of these guys, but I saw J.J. and I liked him a lot. In my book he is head and shoulders above Dunleavy. He totally outplayed him in the Duke game. The guy almost single-handedly took his underdog team to the NCAA final game. I agree he got flustered there, but Dunleavy didn't even get there. True MD won it last year, but it was mainly because of Batier and Jay. Jefires didn't have any help at all. At 15 that is the best thing that could happen to the Rockets.

2. Bostjan Nachbar. Haven't seen him, but people like him to Peja Stojakovich and Hedo Turkoglu. I like them both, so if Jeferies is gone, take him.

3. Q. Woods. This guy has Harold Miner writen all over him. Spectacular athlete, lots of hype (baby T-Mac vs BabyJordan), BUT no defense, doesn't make his team better, his team sucked among JUCO competetion, and people say he maybe uncoachable. Avoid at all cost.


If we go for BPA:

1. Jeferies
2. Stoudamire. The anti-Yao. NBA body, physical play but no shot and no skills. He seems like a nasty competitor. I'll take him just on body and spirit alone.
3. Rush. He will be a major upgrade over Torres as a backup to Mobley, and can even be tried some at SF
4. Frank Williams. Most likely will be better than Moochie as a backup PG, or in the three-guard lineups that Rudy likes.
5. Haislip. 6-11 with huge vertical. That's a value right there. Doesn't come too often.
6. Nachbar
7. Ely. Will be a quality big man.
8. Chris Marcus. I have this thig against fat asses like him. They never work out: Oliver Miller, Stanley Roberts, Felton Spencer, Bryant Reeves. There's not a single success story here.
9. Q. Woods

 

about fat asses, what about the Round Mound, 6 foot 6 inches ( circumference ) Charles Barkley? But you're right, most of those fat guys don't get skinny all of a sudden unless they get sick. Also, our coaches haven't been able to teach many of our players how to play defense after years of study, so I would shy away from anyone that needs polishing in that area.

 

I say Nachbar, then WIlliams. Both seem NBA ready, both fill needs (SF that can shoot and handle the ball; PG that has toughness, can distribute the ball).

All that said, does MEM still have the option of taking the pick?

 

I like what I'm hearing about Stoudamire. Rockets need interior defense, rebounding and toughness. It sounds like he can bring that right now. Who cares if he is a project for building offensive skills (so were Mo Malone, Kemp and Olajuwon, to a lesser degree).

Ming is just as much of a project on the defensive end. Foreign players are all about finesse, not interior toughness.

 

Draamshake, thanks the call to get me off of my Ming rant. I like this topic. I think 15 is an akward position. Not high enough to get a certain (within reason) contributor, but to high to just take a flyer with.

I would take a big man project. If it works out we can always use another big man or trade him. I think Stoudamire, Hiliaro, Ely, Haislip and Marcus will be in the "second tier" of picks. I have to expect that Stoudamire is gone, Hiliaro may be undersized, and Marcus makes me think of Thomas "Two Hands" Hamilton.

I guess I like Haislip or Ely, and proably settle on Haislip. If Stoudamire is availabe, I'd jump all over it.