1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Harden's defense

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by roksoer, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. roksoer

    roksoer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,096
    Likes Received:
    70
    In every game so far, whenever Harden was defending a fast break 1 on 1, he would just back off and let the opposing player do his thing. What is up with that? He never even tries to stand his ground or at least do something, he just lets it happen.
    Is this the gameplan for him not to get too many fouls or is it just that he doesn't care enough?
    Also, why don't coaches point out to him the importance of preventing easy baskets?
    I find this worrisome since it looks like he doesn't want to do the dirty work, which is something you'd expect from a max contract guy.
     
  2. archinkent

    archinkent Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    3,832
    Likes Received:
    41
    He was like that in OKC too. But he had Ibaka to back him up.
     
  3. OremLK

    OremLK Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    15,886
    Likes Received:
    9,960
    "Preventing the easy basket" on the fast break is probably overrated if the guy is a decent FT shooter. EV (expected value) for the average guard on the foul line for two is probably somewhere around 1.60 points. Then you have to factor in the slight chance that the guy makes it anyway, and gets an and-1 instead of just two points. Lastly, Harden does not want to get in foul trouble. He's very important for the Rockets offense.

    All in all, I think it's more a bball IQ thing than it is an effort level thing. I don't have a problem with it as long as Harden fouls on occasions when the runner is a bad FT shooter and can be stopped from making the basket.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. BDswangHTX

    BDswangHTX Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,788
    Likes Received:
    123
    it's called the matador defense. ala T-Mac.
     
  5. Chef_Monteur

    Chef_Monteur Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Messages:
    863
    Likes Received:
    20
    Harden never had to guard the other teams best player for 40+ minutes when he played for OKC. There will be an adjustment period for him but the reality is that defense is a team concept, its not an individual thing like offense can be at times. Defensive chemistry takes a long time to build, arguably longer than offensive chemistry does.

    Right now, we shouldn't be concerned with what Harden does on defense. He needs to score points and get people involved offensively because he has the most experience and when he has a bad game offensively it hurts our team confidence more than if he has a bad game on defense.
     
  6. Wapzoe

    Wapzoe Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    779
    Likes Received:
    86
    I think it is because of fouls (as you pointed out)

    Whether this is a team directive or something he does himself is another matter, but i guess the Rox organisation will ask for change if it's not what they want.

    I hope he does improve his defense though, he tends to fall asleep and get lost in off-ball screens.. He can truly become a superstar if he locks down on D (Jordan came into the league as an offensive player and worked on his D and we all know how that turned out, similar story with Kobe and countless others)
     
  7. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    88,827
    Likes Received:
    42,758
    Tmac didn't have the stamina rofl
     
  8. roksoer

    roksoer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,096
    Likes Received:
    70
    Makes sense, but I believe that he is a skilled enough player to be able to stop a high enough percentage of such plays, that should warrant him trying to do so on a regular basis. However, I do agree with Wapzoe, he still is a young player and still has a few things to learn.

    @Chef_Monteur
    Note that I never picked on his defense in a half court set, he definitely is prone to getting lost on defense but I believe that is a result of him not having a proper training camp with the team and I'm sure we will be seeing less of that throughout the season.

    It's just these 1 on 1 situations that rub me the wrong way since I can always expect him to just back off...
     
  9. meh

    meh Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    15,343
    Likes Received:
    2,211
    Wait, in situations where James Harden is forced to defend a fast break by himself... your focus is on James Harden? And not all the mistakes made that led to the situation in the first place? That's like wondering why the punter whiffed on a tackle against a returner on his way for a return TD.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. sidestep

    sidestep Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    777
    Likes Received:
    35
    Fast break defense is not an issue but Harden's half-court defense is a problem. Foye being the most recent example. So far, it doesn't seem the coaching staff have held him accountable for it as I've noticed no obvious improvement across these games. On the positive side, since Harden doesn't get into people's faces, he stays out of foul trouble. ;)
     
  11. LikeMike

    LikeMike Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,120
    Likes Received:
    1,184
    I agree with sidestep. His defense the last game was embarrassing and a real reason why the Jazz stayed into the game as long as they did. It always seemed like he had no effort to fight through a pick and quit defending every time it got a little hard. And his lack of effort seemed to rub off on the other guys as well.

    To me that is a concern... Perhaps the coaching staff tells him to just focus on offense and not waste energy on defense, but for him to be a star he needs to develop into a 2way player - like Kobe, James, Jordan...

    This year is a rebuilding year, and perhaps that's a reason for him to not give it his all... But I sure hope he realizes that his teammates are watching him and that he starts to play both ways soon...
     
  12. Aleron

    Aleron Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    11,685
    Likes Received:
    1,113
    Durant does the same thing, it must be an okc thing but the strategy seems to be that the best way to stop fast break points is to slow them down just long enough for a weak side block, of course we don't have anywhere near the blocking talent as ibaka.
     
  13. tie22fighter

    tie22fighter Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    406
    Likes Received:
    9
    He is doing so much more on the offensive side of things that overall he is making a positive contribution to the team.

    But his lack of effort on defense is getting a little embarrassing. Hopefully, he won't become T-Mac. :eek:
     
  14. pmac

    pmac Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    7,890
    Likes Received:
    2,412
    Yes, this is one of my biggest concerns with Harden. He doesn't need to be a Kobe, Lebron, or Iguodala type defender he just needs to be an average defender that can stay in front of his man and funnel them into Asik. Right now he's basically Kevin Martin with playmaking ability and that's not acceptable.
     
  15. stobbartjohn

    stobbartjohn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,211
    Likes Received:
    50
    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TjbkXewxlGI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  16. roxxy

    roxxy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    5,120
    Likes Received:
    162
    His defense is pretty poor it actually looks worse than when he was in OKC. The coaching staff is asking him to do a lot of things offensively as well. He seems to not care sometimes. He made Randy Foye look like a superstar. This is a rebuilding year for everyone so I cut him some slack. And he never had a training camp to pick up the fundamentals (although some of the defensive **** he does is just basic basketball). Sampson keeps talking about defense & us improving it but our D has continued to be subpar under him.
     
  17. VBG

    VBG Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    7,990
    Likes Received:
    307
    T-Mac 04-05 First season with Houston played 40.8 minutes per game and was 4th in the NBA in MPG
     
  18. sammy

    sammy Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2002
    Messages:
    18,949
    Likes Received:
    3,528
    He's done that when he is in foul trouble. I don't blame him stepping aside and removing himself from the play due to the incompetent officiating that plagues the league.
     
  19. torocan

    torocan Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2012
    Messages:
    4,228
    Likes Received:
    436
    I'm not that worried about it at this point.

    Defense is the last skill set to develop for most young players, and the last part to click for teams. I consider Harden to be a work in progress in terms of defense, especially with so much already on his plate.

    Ask me this question again in January.
     
  20. teebone21

    teebone21 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    3,261
    Likes Received:
    34
    McHale would bench his ass if he were here
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now