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[ClutchFans] Keep an eye on Deron Williams, because the Rockets sure will

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Clutch, Jan 18, 2012.

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Would you trade Kyle Lowry (+ more) for Deron Williams?

  1. YES

    312 vote(s)
    48.0%
  2. NO

    338 vote(s)
    52.0%
  1. Ricksmith

    Ricksmith Contributing Member

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    Every year it seems like Clutchfans falls in love with a player, only to move on to the next one. Ron Artest, Aaron Brooks, and now Kyle Lowry. Years of complaining about not being able to trade for a star player, and now there is a small chance to get that star and most of y'all are saying no because Kyle Lowry will be a star, compared to Deron Williams, who is already a star? Being a fan of a team tends to makes you overvalue your current players.
     
  2. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
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    Perception. You say Lowry isn't a star, I say he is, and has been since the second half of last year.
     
  3. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    Fair. I think league perception (coaches and GM's) is that Deron is a star PG and Lowry isn't. I doubt there is any team in basketball that wouldn't gladly give up Lowry for Williams.
     
  4. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
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    Thanks for the well written, as usual, response Clutch. I understand what you are saying.

    I really do like this idea...
    1. Kyle Lowry
    2. Courtney Lee
    3. Chandler Parsons
    4. Pau Gasol
    5. Samuel Dalembert

    But I think we would be overpaying a tad. The original deal would have come with Nene. I'm not so sure that Pau alone does it for me. We better be bringing back Marshon Brooks. :grin:
     
  5. houseofglass21

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    Lowry is playing better than Deron Williams this year, period. No former Utah Jazz player belongs on the Rockets.
     
  6. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
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    The scary thing about Lowry is his contract. If you could somehow convince the Nets or some other team to give up a star WITHOUT including Lowry, you could make a killing with all the flexibility that would be attributed to Lowry's contract.

    I think Kyle Lowry and Deron Williams would be a perfect fit in the backcourt, TOGETHER...

    Daryl Moriarty has already shown his hand...

    Martin/Scola/Dragic...
     
  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Yes, I would definitely argue it. I acutally don't even have to argue it - it' s a fact.

    PER adjusts for pacing - Magic played in a much faster paced era, so his PER isn't going to be as gaudy as you'd expect it to be relative to LeBron....so what? :confused:

    You're basically arguing against math here. it's simple math that a guy who scores 29 ppg in 20% fewer possessions is scoring more per possession than a guy scoring 27 ppg.


    No- they are flawless :rolleyes:

    Basically what you're saying is: you have a bunch of preconceived biases that are basically impossible to quantify, and if evidence is produced that undercuts them, you will simply ignore it.

    And for the last time, it doesn't take "advanced" statistics to tell us that Lowry is having a better season than Williams unless you think things like FG% is "advanced" or if rebounds are "advanced"

    The word "advanced" is really kind of a misnomer...all statistics are attempts to quantify things in various forms. There's no "advanced" - there's only newer ones and older ones.

    The newer ones make more of an attempt to filter out human error/bias than the older ones, which were basically created by newspaper writers to tell a story, rather than scientists to quantify impact, and IMO are largely more succesful, which is why pretty much every single NBA team uses them.
     
  8. FLASH21

    FLASH21 Heart O' Champs

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    If you can afford it, and it does land you that super hot chick... why the hell not!?!?
     
  9. HOUROCKETS713

    HOUROCKETS713 Member

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    d-will 2 the rockets has a 1% possibility :(
     
  10. dartherus

    dartherus Member

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    Great point, Howard or any other superstar is more likely to come with DW than KL (an emerging star, but nothing sure right now, not a well stablished superstar like DW)

    The one concern: Would we end up like the NYK? With absolutely zero depth and overfatigued superstars...doesn't sound like a good recipe for success especially after the Tmac and Yao 'era'.[/QUOTE]
    Actually there is too much 'Depth' imo, DM has been colecting too many assets IMO, more than a normal NBA team can use regularly. And playing lacking minutes tend to lose trade value.

    So if we can trade 'good role players, probably star-level players'for a superstar, I'd say, go for it ASAP!!
     
  11. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    56% currently against. :) Interesting.
     
  12. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    Basically I'm saying Magic Johnson and Larry Bird have had seasons more productive than LeBron James and David Robinson wasn't more productive than Wilt, Kareem or Hakeem. If your fancy stats lead you to conclude otherwise then I'm fine agreeing to disagree.
     
  13. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    If you round up.
     
  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    It's not really a "fancy stat" to judge players based on a per-possession basis rather than a per game basis.
     
  15. faraza84

    faraza84 Member

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    No just that they are similar on stats but then you have to go by notoriety and other factors. So I'd go with d will. He's proven, he's got a premium and he has the ability to sway a big star and that's something Lowry can't do. Love Lowry but you gotta big or go home. Plus if I was nj having good players on the cheap who are already locked in and can't leave for a while is a big plus.
     
  16. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    I just don't understand this argument. Stats are the record of what happened. Not a prediction of what will happen in the future or when it happened in the game(hitting the opening 3 of the game vs. hitting a fadeway bomb with 2 defenders in your face at the buzzer to win).

    Being more productive doesn't always equate to being the superior player. Team, coach, scheme, era and plenty more factor in to how much a player is capable of producing. In the end like I said before the stats are a record of what happened and brushing them aside just because there are some minor differences within the top .1% of players ever to play just seems shortsighted.
     
  17. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    Whatever you choose to call it...if you believe that Magic never had a season as productive as LeBron's "average season" then we will agree to disagree.
     
  18. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    The argument is that stats don't tell you everything. You have to bring stats into the right context, which includes knowing specifics about both players/teams that you are comparing. And then there are just some things that stats simply don't tell you, such as the fact that LeBron James has the type of mindset that allows him to go passive in the most important series of his career and Magic Johnson doesn't. Or that I look at the Rockets and still see a team with no true closer but the Jazz were comfy with Williams playing that role for many seasons.
     
  19. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Would you two please stop derailing this fine thread !!!

    SHEESSHHHHH !!!!!

    ;)

    Now back to the Pau to the Rockets and DWill to the Lakers scenario....

    DD
     
  20. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    You are confusing productivity with efficiency.

    ....but anyway, Magic did have at least one season higher than LeBron's super-high efficiency rating, and had several more that were so close statistically that it's more or less a dead heat. And, finally, as previously stated, LeBron's rating is going to diminish over time towards the end of his career so Magic will probably have a few more after that.

    I'm not sure why you find this surprising.

    Again, we don't need advanced stats to tell us that LeBron was putting up monster seasons and basically made a team of lotto-nobodies into title title contenders. That's simply what happened....and as a consequence he's got more gaudy stats than a guy playing on a team loaded with HOF'rs and all stars to share the load.
     

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