1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[ClutchFans] Samuel Dalembert's Contract: A Brief Analysis

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by BimaThug, Dec 27, 2011.

  1. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,368
    Likes Received:
    387

    I guess I'm missing something in the CBA somehow. I'm having a hard time understanding why we couldn't trade to Orlando the option to our 2012 lottery pick if we get one or a future first rounder 2 years after our Memphis obligation is fulfilled. In other words the trade language says if we make the playoffs, then Orlando gets our 2014 since Memphis gets our 2012 and if we don't make the playoffs, then Orlando gets our 2012 lottery pick since it is protected from Memphis....and Memphis has access to one of our future picks. What about that sort of pick trade option violates the CBA? We're not trading something we don't have and we aren't trading picks in 2 straight years. What's wrong with it?
     
  2. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2002
    Messages:
    17,491
    Likes Received:
    2,883
    Thanks for this. You are the #1 reason to keep coming back to CF IMHO.

    How does the Rox losing the various "salary cap exceptions, their trade exceptions (possibly even including the $7.35 million trade exception from the Shane Battier trade) and certain former players’ cap holds (such as Yao Ming’s)" ramify? What 'bullets' remain, other than the players and picks, for DM the GM to try and pull a rabbit out of his hat? Again, thanks!
     
  3. Amel

    Amel Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    Messages:
    10,522
    Likes Received:
    5,486
    If he continues to play like last night, this guy will be a steal
     
  4. leebigez

    leebigez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2001
    Messages:
    15,485
    Likes Received:
    586
    I think this was a good signing. Morey used the mark cuban method with the partial contract. The depth at the position made it a good signing. I still contend that they have a cluttered roster filled with alike guys.

    Great write up bima
     
  5. v3.0

    v3.0 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    16,203
    Likes Received:
    931
    Yes, I agree it's Les' directives that Morey is following, I even said the same thing in the What evidence do we have that Morey is doing a good job thread. The gist of what I saying is don't expect drafting in the high lottery as long as Morey is around. I pontificate that if some other GM tried to carry out Les' order, there's a better chance that GM will make a wrong move that will unintentionally send the Rockets to the bottom. Bad for his career, good for us I guess (depending on who we draft).
     
  6. BimaThug

    BimaThug Resident Capologist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 1999
    Messages:
    8,341
    Likes Received:
    4,810
    First off, I assume you mean NEW JERSEY, not Memphis.

    The reason your proposal won't work is because the Rockets could conceivably be without a first round pick in 2012 and 2013, violating the Ted Stepien Rule.

    Let's say the Rockets tried to make your proposed trade and ended up missing the playoffs, thereby conveying their 2012 pick to Team X. If the Knicks somehow (however unlikely) got a top-5 pick in 2012, the Rockets would be without a first round pick in 2012. And since it is quite possible that the Rockets would have to convey their 2013 first round pick to New Jersey to satisfy the T-Will trade, the Rockets would have been without a first round pick in consecutive future drafts. Hence, it fails under the Ted Stepien rule.

    Again, it doesn't matter what's "most likely" to happen. It must be a CERTAINTY that the Rockets will have a 2012 or 2013 first round pick at the time they make their trade.

    Hope that helps.
     
  7. ClutchCityReturns

    ClutchCityReturns Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2005
    Messages:
    13,320
    Likes Received:
    2,442
    Thanks for the expert write up once again, Bima. Can't say that enough.

    Just one thing, though. Shouldn't the very last sentence end with a question mark?
     
  8. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,368
    Likes Received:
    387
    Ok. Forgot about the pick being to NJ. ALso thought we had a protected lottery pick from Memphis from the Battier deal.

    I still think we could trade our lottery pick in a wink-wink deal negotiated prior but traded on draft day.
     
  9. BimaThug

    BimaThug Resident Capologist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 1999
    Messages:
    8,341
    Likes Received:
    4,810
    That pick was traded in the Flynn/Motiejunas draft day deal.

    Yeah, good luck with that.
     
  10. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,368
    Likes Received:
    387
    Ok, answer this.

    What team would be willing to give up a lottery pick for Dwight now or on draft day???
     
  11. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    9,835
    Likes Received:
    4,484
    I feel like the #1 legitimate argument people have against Morey is this. What really is the worth of having cap flexibility? Isn't it all relative to who's going to be in that particular free agent class in which you have the free money? Detroit had a ton of cap space one year, and then the market dictated that Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva would get paid an inflated amount because there frankly was no one better that year. Detroit landed them in an awkward sort of musical chairs manner, like "we don't really have a spot for you, but it just fits because you deserve money and we have it. Take it!" Obviously Morey won't be as dumb as Joe Dumars in giving out big contracts, but the point is that the goal in the NBA is not to have unused money under the cap but rather a collection of contracts that are either worth it or good deals for the franchise.

    If Morey keeps swinging and missing at players that are inevitably going to cost us a lot of money, then for that particular year it's just as bad as having a bunch of overpaid guys. I grant you the fact that at least it doesn't put our future in jeopardy, but it does put us in limbo. And right now with the amount of limbo we Rockets fans have had to deal with the past 2+ years, I think we're ready for something different even if that means immediate awfulness in exchange for some, ANY good prospects on the horizon.

    Just for reference sake, you mentioned Kevin Martin and Al Jefferson coming off the books in 2013, potentially making us big players in the 2013 free agency class. I only did cursory checking, but it looks like those two players are going to be THE jewels of the 2013 unrestricted free agency class. Maybe a Gerald Wallace, Josh Smith, or Andrew Bynum could get more. Manu is free but also old and bald. (Oh it also looks like Westbrook is free, he'd be #1 then.) All in all though, it's really sad how bad that year could be for free agency. So if that's the case then there really is no point in clearing money for that offseason.
     
  12. RedHotRockets01

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    25
    Any chance we can buy a higher lottery pick if we end up in the teens again? Money talks, and with this draft being so deep, I'm hoping other teams don't frown upon trading down for the right package of "assets"!
     
  13. LCII

    LCII Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    395
    Excellent analysis Bima. You should be Morey's PR person.
     
  14. ashishduh

    ashishduh Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,980
    Likes Received:
    61
    I like how people are saying that Morey has us mired in mediocrity after 1 game.

    Anyway, good writeup. Pleasure to read as always.
     
  15. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,498
    Likes Received:
    56,089
    Thanks BimaThug,

    One question about the delay. That means we still had Bird Rights to Hayes? You mention a SnT with Hayes as a possibility.

    Couldn't the delay have been about seeing if we could just flat out resign Hayes? Was that a possibility, just resigning Hayes with Bird Rights after the Kings revoked his contract?
     
  16. Rip Van Rocket

    Rip Van Rocket Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    356
    It's impossible to know if someone will be a true superstar or franchise player.
     
  17. BimaThug

    BimaThug Resident Capologist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 1999
    Messages:
    8,341
    Likes Received:
    4,810
    Yes, I think the Rockets would have still had Chuck's Bird rights after Sacramento voided his contract. They never renounced his rights. However, had no sign-and-trade for Dalembert worked out, and if Chuck still wasn't signed, then the Rockets would have had to renounce their rights to him in order to sign Dalembert outright.

    I don't think a Hayes reunion was in the cards with a Pau-less Rockets team. Had the Pau trade gone through, then cap room becomes less of an issue (with Pau's and Nene's large contracts on the books) and a re-signed Hayes as a championship-caliber backup was maybe worth it.

    However, given the current (frankly mediocre) Rockets team, it just wasn't going to be worth it to keep Chuck at $5M+ per season over four or five years.

    Also, I think the whole Chuck-to-Sacramento ship had already sailed. As it turns out, SAC wasn't trying to screw over Chuck by voiding his first contract. It was a necessity to avoid being on the hook if he did turn out to have a career-ending heart condition. My guess is that they always intended on signing him as long as his follow-up tests turned out okay.
     
  18. HI Mana

    HI Mana Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,321
    Likes Received:
    853
    Alright, if the Rockets were going to go trade for Dwight, how about trading a first rounder with the following conditions:

    1. If a draft pick from New York is conveyed to Houston in 2012, and Houston does not have to convey their pick to New Jersey, Houston conveys their pick to Orlando.

    2. If a draft pick from New York is conveyed to Houston in 2012, and Houston must convey their pick to New Jersey, Houston conveys their 2013 draft pick to Orlando.

    3. If New York does not convey a draft pick to Houston in 2012, and Houston conveys their pick to New Jersey, Houston conveys their 2013 pick to Orlando if New York conveys their pick to Houston in 2013; otherwise Houston conveys their 2014 pick to Orlando.

    I think this covers the Steipen rule, with the caveat that the Rockets would not be able to put protection on their pick. If they got Dwight Howard, however, I would not be afraid to trade a #1 overall pick in 2012, and we've seen that Dwight and a cast of nobodies is still good for 50 wins.
     
  19. BimaThug

    BimaThug Resident Capologist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 1999
    Messages:
    8,341
    Likes Received:
    4,810
    That . . . might . . . work, although you need to go farther to account for the possibility of the Rockets NEVER getting the Knicks' first rounder and the Rockets always being in the lottery. Essentially, the conditions to that pick would be about a page and a half long!

    Even then, I'm still not 100% sure that would pass muster under the CBA.

    More importantly, try explaining all this to Otis Smith and Rich DeVos and see if that lands you in the pole position to land Dwight Howard. ;)
     
  20. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    88,837
    Likes Received:
    42,768
    Thank you Bima.
    This is the whole point. There are still people out there who don't get it.
    Morey wants to tank hard. ;) no pun intended
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now