50 Greatest Players- Who would you replace?

So that makes him a Top 50 player to ever play? Sorry, but accomplishments and mainly winning is what makes a player great, Pete didn't have that just like current Tracy McGrady and neither get any credit because of that, It's simple and plain.

 

I would defintitely take Walton off that list. If we're talking about college, he was a great player but in the NBA he was constantly hurt and his stats weren't that impressive. Others on that list I would call really good players but not great like DeBusschere, Parish, Wilkens, Worthy

 

we could just take everyone off the list except for Jordan since they all would have been second fiddle on the bulls.

 

Your criteria seems misplaced.

Pete Maravich is quite possibly one of the greatest basketball players to ever play the game. It was said that back when he played at LSU, had there been a 3 point line he would have averaged 60 points per game. Ridiculous. His NBA exploits included leading the league in scoring, but admittedly his flashy style did not always mesh well with his teammates.

Nevertheless, his impact on the game of basketball remains incredible.

 

I remember reading that when the NBA was competing with the ABA in the 1970's, it used subliminal race baiting to surreptitiously gain an edge; the ABA was the "black" league with the "flash", while the NBA was the "white" league where players like Willis Reed and Dave Cowens were deemed "hard working" and "scrappy". Maravich was supposedly the Great White Hope in that era and thus he was promoted very heavily by the NBA, and thus contemporaries all thought very highly of him.

Whether this is true or not it is definitely true that Maravich's reputation has gotten worse since his death. When he died people thought he was a top 30 player of all time at worst. I'm not sure if it is a majority but many people now see him as an inefficient turnover factory who played on a lot of bad teams.

Speaking of the ABA, Artis Gilmore deserves to be in any 50 Greatest Players list. Just thought I'd get that in there.

 

Sorry, I meant 94-95.

 

Outave Bing, Hal Greer, Sam Jones, James Worthy.
In:Kobe, Garnett, Lebron, Duncan.

 

I'm not. I'm saying his offensive superiority over Pippen makes up for it.

 

So you're saying that Richmond's offensive game was so potent that it would compensate for both Pippen's offensive and defensive abilities.

Please tell me you're kidding. That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. If that were even remotely close to being true, Richmond would be in the GOAT discussions.

 

I can find you a ton of PER numbers for David Robinson that say he's the greatest center of all-time. Big deal. PER is a function of the accumulation of statistics. Any great player that plays by himself is going to have a high PER and any great player that plays along side another great player will have his PER diminished.

Richmond, Grant, and Jordan would have won titles before Pippen, Grant, and Jordan did. Why do you think the Pistons beat the Bulls? Because the Pistons had balanced scoring all up and down their lineup while Pippen wasn't good enough yet and nobody else could score. Let Jordan go for 50 and keep everyone else in check.

Richmond was 22ppg, 5.9 rebs, and 4.2 assists/game as a rookie.

Pippen was 7.9 ppg, 3.8 rebs, and 2.1 assists/game as a rookie.

Richmond was plenty ready right away.

 

This Scottie Pippen bashing should stop and is based on ignorance. I lived in Chicago before and during Pippen's time and I saw what he did for the Bulls and their six, get it, SIX! championships. Even Phil Jackson and MJ acknowledged the vital importance of Pippen to those Bulls championships.

Yes, Pippen did not do well here in Houston and he opted out. One of his reasons was his disgust for Barkley and his work ethic. The Rudy T system also did not fit his style as he was accustomed more to the motion offense that the triangle provided. Even if he is hated here in Houston that does not negate his immense talent and contributions to, once again, two sets of three peat championships. Even the great Olajuwon did not come close to that. So leave Pippen alone.

 

Patrick Ewing is NOT one of the 50 betst players in the legue then and especially not now.

 

I would replace..........
Charles Barkley 0 rings
Karl Malone 0 rings (hate both of them )
and
replace them with the two greatest power forwards in NBA history
Tim Duncan 4 rings (possible 5th ring, this year)
Kevin Garnett 1 rings (possible 2nd ring, this year)

 

hakeem off the list............jk jkj kjkjkjk JK!!

 

So in other words, you want to bash a stat that is an accumulation of statistics but then want to promote scoring?

"Any great player that plays by himself is going to have a high PER and any great player that plays along side another great player will have his PER diminished"

Are you even rereading what you're posting? Pippen's PER WHEN HE PLAYED ALONGSIDE MJ in their first championship year was 20. IN FACT, his PER was 20 or higher for 7 out of 8 seasons spanning from the Bulls' first ring to their last. Meanwhile, Mitch Richmond's PER didn't get into the 20s until he went to sacramento, YEARS after his ROY and YEARS after RUN TMC. What does this tell us? He wasn't an efficient player. Hell, I rather put Ray Allen on this list before I put Mitch Richmond. Your argument that a player's PER goes down because he plays alongside a great player is flawed. A player's efficiency, like you said, is a measure of accumulated statistics. In other words, if player A is taking away shot attempts from player B, player B's OVERALL game shouldn't take a significant hit, if any.

So you're going to seamlessly transfer Richmond's 22ppg onto the Bulls team, without considering that both Jordan and Richmond plays THE SAME POSITION and without considering even the most remote possibility that Richmond wouldn't get the same amount of shot attempts like he did in Golden State?

 

I know a lot of Rockets fans hate Pippen...but I only remember Pippen as a Bull, the same way I only remember Dream as a Rocket, Ewing as a Knick, Jordan as a Bull, etc.

All I know is, there was no player other than Hakeem Olajuwon who was more versatile than Scottie Pippen.

He could handle the ball, and invented the "point forward" position.
He could guard anybody from point guards to power forwards

here's a clip of Pippen shutting down Charles Barkley in 1995 and Magic Johnson in 1991.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SGe-vp_l8U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbjBJy6AWQA

He also changed the Pacers series when he guarded Mark Jackson for 7 games.

He could post up smaller, quicker guards, and he could blow by bigger, slower forwards. He was also great at moving without the ball and he was an excellent finisher...besides Jordan and Drexler, there was no other wings better than Pippen finishing a fast break in the 90's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG49uVLoVUk

Also, he led the Bulls in EVERY statistical catetgory in 1995 as a small forward.

I don't believe Jordan wins a championship without either Scottie Pippen or an all star power forward or center.

Pippen is the one that allowed Jordan to rest a little bit on defense, move without the ball instead of bringing it up, post up instead of driving in from the outside, and took away the burden of creating for others.

Jordan is a guarunteed HOF and Top 50 all time no matter who he played with, but he's the GOAT because of his success, which wouldn't have happened without Pippen, in my opinion.

So considering how important Pippen was to the 6 titles the Bulls won, I would say he's top 50, but only after 96...where he proved himself worthy in 94 and 95 with 2 MVP level seasons without Michael Jordan.

I think making the Dream Team in 92 was maybe a little premature, but other than Bird and Dominique Wilkins, Pippen was better than the other small forwards at the time, so I guess it was by default.

As far as the argument about Jordan drawing double and triple teams...it works the other way too. Before 1989, sure Jordan did draw A LOT of defensive attention.

But Pippen made defenses pay when they doubled or tripled Jordan. It took the Bulls 5 years to find somebody to do that.

I mean, Hakeem was double and triple teamed from 1987 to 1995 when he got Drexler, but only one of his teammates made an all star team during that time (Thorpe, 92).

A phenomenal player getting double and triple teamed doesn't guarantee all star production out of a teammate...that player still has to be good enough to produce.

Pippen was good enough to produce for Jordan, just as Penny, Kobe, and Wade were good enough to produce for Shaq.

So I think Pippen definetily deserves to be in the top 50 of all time.

To me, Worthy, Parish, and Walton are the only one's that I could say from what I've seen, could be replaced. Don't know enough about the pre 1980's players.

 

I did not mean to say Pippen shut down Magic Johnson in the 91 finals...he simply made it a little tougher for him to run their offense.

 

I dare you to name 50 better.

 

At the time I would have replaced Shaq with Dominique Wilkins (one of my favorites), but Shaq is well deserving of it now.

 

Ever heard of Jerry West and Elgin Baylor? Combined titles:1. Yet everyone who played with, against, or watched them rates both top 10 all time(as do I). They won a lot more playoff games than Maravich, but they had each other for most of their careers. Maravich had no one close to their level until his last year, when he played with Bird, and lost in the conference finals. Maravich played for an expansion team(the Jazz), and a Hawks team at the beginning of his career that imploded because of chemistry problems. His career was shortened by injuries(1970-80). If he'd played one more year, he'd have gotten a title, albeit as a role player. Oscar Robertson won only 1 title, not a ton of regular season or playoff games except for 70-71 with Jabbar. He's everyone's top 10, or should be. Stockton, Malone, no titles. Are they off your list, too? Winning carries weight when you're talking top 5 or so, which is why Jordan, Magic, Russell, etc. dominate those lists. No one has put Maravich that high, and neither would I. But he's at least top 50.