For those who are still unhappy with the Gay/Swift for Battier trade, why don't we just say that Stromile Swift cost the Rockets a lottery pick in the 2006 Draft? I feel that the only chance the Rockets were going to have in trading away Swift and his bad contract two years ago was to trade him with the team's lottery pick. I think that the reason the Grizzlies were able to trade Swift away last season as easily as they did with another team (New Jersey Nets) was due to Swift having only one year remaining on his contract after the season while two years ago, there were three years left on it, which would have made trading him away a much more difficult thing to do with another team back then. Just think, with the addition of Ron Artest, RA can have both Artest and Battier in the game at the same time just for defense at the very end of close games while the Rockets are the team that is leading on the scoreboard.
The only way we were going to rid of Swift was by giving up the 8th pick.That's a valid point,but Gay's value was more than only getting Battier because the Grizzlies were very high on him. West thought Gay was going to be his best pick after Kobe.The Rockets should have been able to squeeze more out of them. Artest and Battier will definitely augment our defense,but if Greene were here instead,we would have been lamenting about getting another swingman to help McGrady out. Edit: I'm not implying getting the 24th pick out of the 2006 Draft would have gotten us a star,but it would helped with additional bench depth. Case in point, Lowry is a better PG than Brooks. We are fortunate that Greene and Jackson were enough to get Artest.
This may sound silly, but I blame alot of the Clutchfans members for the signing of Stromile Swift. I remember a bunch of members clamoring for Swift heading into that 2005 offeason, and lo and behold we sign Stro Swift, like CD was reading our board. All the while I'm scratching my head as I saw a dumb underachieving knucklehead in Stro Swift and was just hoping he'd improve under JVG...WRONG. This is why I'm going to personally find leebigez and pimpslap him if somehow DM has a brainfart and gets Tim Thomas on the team. But I know the Wizard is too smart for going for such a loser. And DM needs to have the courage to tell Les no on nostalgia moves *cough*SteveFrancis*cough* that DM knows himself won't pan out. $Ball would have known Francis wasn't going to be a success story.
If CD made any decisions at all based on reading ClutchFans, then he *deserved* to have Stro on his team. Ha! You'd no doubt have LOTS of help, v3.0 -- it would look like the torch-carrying villagers going up to Dr. Frankenstein's castle.
You know how we can tell Morey is good? People have all but abandoned posting random trade ideas since the Artest deal was announced. The "Random Trade Ideas" thread has fallen off the map and no one misses it. There is not one single "What about XXXXX?" or "Trading YYYYY for XXXXX?" thread on the first page. It's for an obvious reason, too: Why dream up trades when Morey actually executes better deals than people can dream up?
I'm here and I never wanted Swift, I wanted SAR because the Rox were never going to be a uptempo team and they won't ever be. Getting a guy that can produce effeciently in the half court was what I was looking at. You keep dogging Tim Thomas and him being a underaciever, but what does that have to do with with playing 18-20mins off the bench. The guy has shot better,rebounded better and scored better throughout his career in the playoffs. I could care less about him not living up to his lotto selection,but the same can be said about Battier. You don't worry about what he shouldve been, see what he is. He's a tall,rangy, atheletic 4 that can run,shoot,rebound and get his own shot in the playoffs. Now if you call 2 yrs @ 4.8 m per overpaid for a guy that gives you lineup flexibilty and production, plus he just turned 31, then it isn't much I can say. Our pf's all have the same limitations in terms of size,range,and mobility. All I'm saying is close the loophole.
He is better than Brooks but no way we pay that kind of money for a backup , especially not for 2 years.
Seriously. Most of Morey's big time trades, if someone proposed them here, we would all flame them for being ridiculous and lopsided. I know I thought Artest would go for more than two picks and bobby jackson. With that in mind, how about a ridiculous trade idea here? When Phoenix underperforms this season and it becomes clear they have to rebuild, they'll trade away veterans for cap space, picks and young guys. That's when they'll take Battier, two first rounders, brooks, head and Francis for Nash. Works under the cap, and we still have alston to back up nash. How about it morey?
This article suggests that Morey did have a hand in the Battier trade. But: 1. He was not the GM, I don't think he was involved in the actual negotiation with Memphis. So the details of the trade was CD's work. 2. Battier is clearly a "moneyball" type player. So I am not surprised Morey would go for him. But Battier is also JVG type of player. So there were a lot of factors and inputs in there. All in all, I would say that the Battier trade should not be counted as Morey's trade.
I give more an A+++ for not staying stagnant, I don't care if the trade doesn't net a 2nd round playoff berth. At least he has the balls to try and get something done. It is now time to get rid of Steve, Head, and Novak for a backup big man. Not Justin Wiliams either. Let Deke stay in Africa, I don't like the pimp move by Faulk.
The roster when Morey took over the GM position: Yao McGrady Alston Head Battier Howard Wells Hayes Snyder Lucas Mutombo Spanoulis Tsakalidis Novak The roster now: Yao McGrady Alston Head Battier Hayes Mutombo? Novak Scola Francis Brooks Landry? Artest Barry Dorsey Leunen? Net result Subtracted: Howard Wells Snyder Lucas Spanoulis Tsakalidis Added: Scola Francis Brooks Landry Dorsey Leunen? Barry Artest
^^ Of the subtracted players, Howard and Wells were the best. The rest hardly played. Of the added players, Artest, Scola, and Barry are sure fire rotation players (two starters). Landry (if he signs) and Brooks are decent to good backups. Dorsey might contribute. And we still don't know what Francis can or cannot do.
Plus, JVG (and the rest of the organization) was in "Win Now!" mode, and waiting to see whether Gay would ever realize his potential made no sense -- even moreso considering the rumors about his work ethic. Gay was chosen by the right team -- the Grizzlies were not in WN! mode and had the time to let a young guy develop. And when they gave Gasol away, it opened things up for Gay to really step up and show what he could do. A few other teams passed on Gay, but the Logo was smart enough to make arrangements to snag him before he dropped too far and was picked up by another team with nothing to lose. Instead of dumping on the Rockets for not taking the risk, give credit to West for an astute GM move because he knew that risk was LOWER for his franchise. Had the Rockets had decided to take that much-riskier move and draft him, things might have turned out much differently and Gay might be looking more like Luther these days. Who knows? The Rockets brass, whatever combination of CD/JVG/Morey it was, had the right guy in their sites for THIS team in Brandon Roy. Perfect fit in every possible way. Rudy Gay was a risky pick and the Rox were a team that couldn't afford to take that risk -- it's that simple. As for why we didn't get more in that trade, Battier isn't just some glue guy -- he's pretty much the *ultimate* glue guy, at least of those in the league at this time. West knew that and knew how highly regarded a player like that is in the eyes of JVG. He most likely would've thrown in a draft choice, but he knew JVG was drooling to add a guy like Battier and played it perfectly. Then again, that's why he's Jerry West and Carroll Dawson is merely Carroll Dawson. If I could go back and undo that trade, I don't think I would. Sure, Rudy Gay is an exciting, young, badass player, but I still say Battier was a much better fit for this club. Now that we've added Artest, Battier and Scola are the perfect role-player types on a team that needs them to balance things out.
I always questioned if Morey had the balls to make a big trade. Make no mistake about it, Battier for Gay was morey's deal. Why would CD deny or initiate when he was leaving? Van Gundy as usual just coaches the players he has through injury, trades, etc. This was the gm elevation move to me. All the other moves were really nothng compared to this. He did it big and didn't stand on the health deal like most wanted the team to do.
Like the rest of us, Leebigez, you're just guessing. At this point the only thing that we know for certain is that there was a lot of stat-analyzing done on that one. Could have been the brainchild of any of those 3 guys.
I really don't get it. The Battier trade was debatable at best. Even if you believe the trade is all Morey (nobody really knows for sure), even if you believe we got the short end, is it worse than giving up Scola for Spanoulis? Giving up Artest for Bobby Jackson and change? Why are you so stuck up with this trade? It's not like Battier is total trash and Gay is a top 10 player. Why is this trade so bad that nothing Morey does can redeem himself? Look at my post comparing what we subtracted and what we added since Morey took over. Tell me the team is not light-years better than just more than a year ago.
I still think ur misunderstanding what I'm saying about the trades. This team is light years better because of Artest. Not because of scola,landry,brooks,jackson or anyone else. I have gave Morey credit for maing this team a real contender, and not buying into the health notion. I'm happy that he got Artest and like someone said it was speculation about him and the battier/gay trade. Whatever your opinion and like DD always says Gay was never on the radar for the rox. What I have said and will say is that if Gay wasn't a draftable prospect 2 yrs ago, that's 1 mistake. If they draft Gay or Brewer, we probably wouldn't have made the Artest trade. The Scola deal and all the other moves were whatever moves. I'm not going to derail this because people will continue to say I won't let it go, but let me say this. The Rox never make the battier for Gay/Swift deal and even with a young gay, inconsistent swift, and aging howard, with a injured Yao, they still make the playoffs. Do they win 52 games? That's debateable, but now Gay has a year under his belt. So VanGundy is out, and Adelman is in and they still don't like the 4 spot, so they make a move for scola. They see strides in Gay, so they never make the trade for James, but pg play is a weakness and make a move for Francis and draft Brooks. Do they win 22 in a row and win 55 wins? Who knows, but maybe Gay is that slashing atheletic finsher and they back him up with a posey type. The rox may or may not advance, who knows, but what I do know is they have howard(7.3m) and Swift ( 6m) salary in the same offseason. What I'm saying is 1 misstep made this team have to make other moves to get back to the other move. Morey made it right, and that's all that matters. If the Artest trade doesn't happen, this is just a middle of the pack western conference team wishing to advance as opposed to knowing this is a team ready for a title. Not 1st rd or 2nd rd,but the ring. That's all that matters.
