You guys can't speculate how Adelman will run his offense because unlike JVG, he adapts. He actually tries to put them in a position to be successful instead forcing them to play his way. The Bonzi iso's against Ginobili weren't the princeton offense.
I don't know Rick Adelnam so I can't say anything about him. I just hope he'll be a great change for us and with him we will play ofense like for example Suns
I could see Yao's shooting range from far outside on the perimeter developed by Adelman, in the same manner that Sabonis and Divac had tremendous 3 point ranger and Sabonis was 7-5. It's likely that Yao would probably want to develop and expand his game by increasing his shooting range because next to Olojuwan, Yao mentioned in his rookie year that Sabonis of Portland was one of his idols who he admired for making the transition to the NBA from overseas and he even wears Sabonis' jersey number out of respect for his game. Imagine Yao hitting the 3 from the baseline like Divac and from all over the floor like Sabonis did at a decent percentage at 7-6? This would force the opposing team's bigs to come out and guard/respect Yao on the perimeter creating much better spacing if they could even make it out to Yao on the perimeter in time to get a hand in his face, and would give Yao the opportunity to crisply hit the cutters like Snyder if Yao can learn to spot them which I think he already has a very good sense of doing.
This thread has spurred the type of discussion I was hoping for. Chinkman, nice job in particular. Everyone -- this is't meant to suggest that Adelman will simply plug in the Sac offense and pound a bunch of square pegs into round holes. I picked the Sac analogy b/c it is the most recent evidence of his coaching and gives us some basis for analysis of the Adelman rockets. I completely expect that there will be differences, the majority of them resulting from the more traditional offense of Yao in the low/mid block. Mad Max's post triggered a thought -- I do believe we'll see a mix of running and passing (to use football analogy) with Yao. That way, at the end of the game, when it'ss up to the stars at winning time, we can get yao into the low/mid block. he will still be the high percentage scoring option if left in single coverage. The big difference should be that our team conversion percentage should go up b/c the defense won't be able to put 8 men in the box to stuff the run, again, going back to my foobtall analogy. We will have shown enough of the pass during the game that they won't be siting on the deep/mid post. As I think about this further, this is the hallmark of SA's offense late in games. Know the 4-5 sets they're likely to run, but those are sufficiently different that you can't sit on any one of them. this further confirms my belief that under Adelman, Yao has the potential to move into MVP land for long while.
Also, let's get into a study of the Blazers under Adelman. I recall that being an ultra athletic team, with size, speed and length all over the court, with th elikes of jerome kersey, duckworth, clyde, sabonis, buk williams, etc. I find that comparison difficult b/c we don't have 1/10th of that athleticism.
Wasn't anyone reminded of Bonzi whenever Kirk played? I think Kirk will have a major role next year under Adelman. Steve Novak may turn into our own Peja, who knows. The only thing I fear is Yao turning into a Dirk Nowitzki type player. He should continue trying to play close to the basket. Shooting big men hardly is the key to success (KG, Dirk, etc.).
Really nice thread, and so many thought-provoking posts that I hate to ruin it. So I'll just note that I can't wait for Yao to be free of constraints. JVG's coaching staff did as much as they could with Yao, but the big guy isn't Patrick Ewing. He's a different mold of center. OK, he learned to play down low. But the referees allow him to get absolutely prison-raped, while if you even breathe near a guard, you'll get the whistle. Even T-Mac once commented on, What happened to the Yao Ming who was such a great passer before I came to the Rockets? (i.e., JVG's staff took away Yao's passing ability) Personally, if Yao's scoring goes down a bit, I'd be fine if his assists go up. Or if he's able to hit teammates with a nice pass that moves the ball around well. The Shaq-Kobe model worked for those players but not for Yao, who's getting killed out there, or for Tracy, who is an All-Star for 30 of the 36 minutes a game that he plays (and stands around with his thumb up his A the rest of the time), or for Rafer, who throws teardrop runners at the basket and never makes it becuz he's afraid of contact....etc etc. Post Script: I don't know to what team, and hopefully not to the West, but if you find the right deal, you have to send TMac on his merry way. He would work better on a team where some other player has the balls, because he does not. Spread out those 18 million bucks on strong, quality depth. Not likely to happen, but Morey can't be afraid to improve this roster----after Yao and TMac and to a lesser degree Battier, this team sucks.
Good thread guys. You have to believe Adelman will find an offense that works for the Rockets. There are lesser teams with lesser offensive talent, with better offenses. How the change in pace overall affects the team is another question, but I, for one, would be excited to see Adelman here and what he could do with the team. It seems like his style of play could be beneficial to almost everyone on the team offensively....the longest shot being Alston, of course...
Even if he does decide to change the way Yao is used, that isn't a bad thing if it improves the team. It isn't like he would never post him up, just have him do more things that make the offense better than anyone else. Say what you want about his back to basket being your best percentage shot, but when you need buckets or the game is over, the other team can keep Yao from scoring in the paint. As for T-Mac, he can't shoot very well at all actually. He is a below average "shooter." If he is in a Peja role, we are in big trouble. Also, the Shaq/Kobe model was never implemented here. The Shaq/Kobe model required having Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Devean George, Ron Harper, a still effective Glen Rice, Horace Grant, AC Green, etc. They had more talent around those two than we've ever had.
I agree, and you would think this would make Yao more effective. Take the double high post play they currently have...it's a good play, but they only have one variation of it, where the PG uses a pick from one of the high post players while the other works to get post position. Again, good play, but gets predictable late in the game. Mix it up. Imagine a high post variation where Alston passes to Yao in the left high post (instead of using the pick), and then uses a pick from the right high post player (say Juwan) while cutting to the corner 3 spot on the other side of the court. At the same time, Battier sets a pick for McGrady to cut along the baseline on the other/right side of the court towards the basket. Yao turns, hits a cutting McGrady if open = Option 1. Option 2 has McGrady not being open but counting across the lane to post up his man and getting an entry pass from Yao (inverted offense). T-Mac can go to work in the post while Yao fades a bit to the FT line and is ready for an open jumper if his defender doubles. Option 3, if T-Mac doesn't want to play in the post, Yao can come down and set a pick, T-Mac takes the pick towards the lane. He can drive, shoot an open jumper, or hit a rolling/fading Yao. Finally, while this is all happening on the left side of the court, Juwan either gives Rafer a back pick to try and get a cutting layup pass from Tracy, or Juwan gives a back pick to Shane who has been in the corner 3 spot after his earlier pick of Tracy's man, or Rafer can cut down and set a pick for Juwan or Shane to come up towads the three point line, etc. Anyways, just a random addition to an already employed, but not extremely effectively, high post play. As far as Yao on the low post, I expect this to continue, too, but hopefully also improved. JVG had some plays to get Yao open in deep post postion that worked, and generally worked better earlier in the games than later. By the end of games, teams were stopping the play by getting to our positions before we would. That little back pick play across the lane. I can't remember the times that Yao's man would know the back pick was coming and swing around it to the other low block before Yao could get there...all the while I'd think "Why don't they just use a little mis-direction, and have Yao just turn around before trying to use a failed back-pick." because at that point he'd be wide open on the original side of the basket, but they always went through with the play anyway. That's how JVG has always struck me. Here's the play, run it. If you don't run it well, it's because you didn't set effective picks, not because maybe the play was a little too predictable. Hopefully, whoever the new coach is will add a little more surprise to some of the plays, a little more misdirection, off-ball screens, etc. while still keeping what we know works...Yao on the low block, T-Mac posting up where possible, T-Mac and Yao, or Hayes, pick and roll, spotting up Battier for an open 3. As an aside, though he may be moved this of-season, I think Head would benefit a whole whole lot from a Rick Adelman type offense.
IMO there are several players that will benefit from Adelman and several that will be hindered by him. Benefit: Yao - Adelman will probably give Yao some time at the High Post to give defenses something else to worry about concerning Yao. This will allow Yao to save some energy by not banging on the low post on every offensive set. Also, I believe he will give Yao more cutters and options to pass to when doubled which will dramatically increase Yao's assists. Novak - I believe Novak could become a Peja lite type of player. He is tall and lanky and does a great job of catching and shooting, particularly off the curl or around a screen. Watch Novak's game at Marquette he was always coming around a screen for a catch and shoot, that is a great skill to have, and I believe Adelman will utilize it. V-Span - I think Adelman will recognize V-Span's ability to create for himself and for others and will live with his mistakes as he learns to adjust to the NBA game. He will put V-Span in a situation where he can succeed and run a lot of PnR offense for him with players that can finish off the pass. Battier - The guy was a decent cutter at Memphis and this year became a stand alone 3pt shooter, which he did a fine job of, but he has more in his game than that, and I expect Adelman to get him on the move on offense. Shane is a very high BBall IQ guy and the thought of him back cutting on the baseline with Yao at the high post makes me giddy. JL3 - A player who can come in and change the pace of the game is a welcome addition, and I believe Adelman will find a way to use him when the situation calls for it. Howard - He will probably regain his starting spot and his ability to hit the high post jumper will be utilized by Adelman. He may be moved in a trade though. Neutral: Tmac - I believe Adelman will give Tmac as much freedom as JVG did, but may ask him to cut some which will help him, but Tmac's game is good with anyone. I think he will be the same. Snyder - He is a great finisher at the basket but can he learn when to cut, and when to pass. It will all depend on his Bball IQ. Hinder: Luther - He can still shoot the 3 ball, and that will be utilized, but if Luther does not improve his passing and ball handling he will probably be relegated to a smaller role. Hayes - If he can't shoot, he is going to have a hard time player. The one hope for him is that he is REALLY good at the PnR game, so he may get some PT with someone like V-Span. Rafer - I believe Rafer's days as a starter are numbered, his propensity for poor shooting and his pourous defense against quality PGs will probably force him to the bench or off the roster in a trade. Anyway, that is how I see the team as it stand, but I fully expect changes to the roster to accomodate the style of play Adelman wants to play. Ultimatly the one thing I like about Adelman is his ability to adopt his system to the players he has, versus shoe horning those players into a rigid system. GO ROCKETS ! DD PS. This thread is awesome, it is nice to look ahead and discuss our team. Thank you.
My main qualm with the high post Yao offense is his lack of mobility (besides the fact that it takes him out of the position where he's most effective). Part of the beauty of those Sac offenses was that the high post offered their bigs the triple threat position. This was especially evident in Webber; how many times did you see him fake a pass, fake a shot, and then drive in for a dunk? Yao simply cannot do that; at most the high post offers him a double threat, shoot and pass. If I'm an opposing coach, as soon as Yao catches the ball in the free throw line extended area I'm ordering my big to swarm him. Yao doesn't handle ball pressure especially well and I expect his turnovers to increase in the shortterm. A possibility (one that I think makes a lot of sense) is that Adelman will adjust his offense based on matchups on a game to game basis. If the opposing C is a big guy who can hinder Yao's vision in the high post (think Diop with his freakishly long arms) I'd revert to a primarily low post offense where Yao can eat him up and still look for cutters off the ball. If Yao's playing a team where he'd be swarmed in the low post by shorter players (GS, Phoenix), stick him out top half the time to mix it up where he can hopefully see over the smaller defenders. All of this is predicated upon Yao's vision and passing ability. We've seen glimpses, but I feel that we've been overrating them somewhat. The 18 footer I'm confident he can shoot, but an open 18 footer isn't as good a shot as a guarded 8 footer, and a contested 18 footer (which he will see a lot of if opposing coaches swarm him like i think they will) isn't nearly as good as a 12 foot post. I do agree that we need to design more misdirection plays to get Yao in better positions to catch the ball. I loved the fact that JVG concentrated on this so much in the gameplan with the repost and baseline cut, but we definitely need more variety as teams were beginning to adjust.
Question: When Yao isn't in the game . . . who plays the High post? Deke? JHoward? Can we get Del Harris as an Assistanct Coach? The draft should be interesting I am excited about the prospect of next season Rocket River
Good Looking out Duckworth is like Yao . . Slow with a good touch . . Yao is better Kersey was a garbage man . .just clean up on the boards no plays for him - See Chuck Hayes Buck Williams. . is like Juwan with more skills and some heart Rocket River
It's not comparable. First of all Brad Miller had the ability to fake an opponent into the air and drive to the hoop--slow as he is he's still a helluva lot faster than Yao. Even Kurt Thomas did this once or twice to Duncan this year and he runs like he's wearing clown shoes. And STILL Yao's slower! Miller, and I know some will debate this, also has a more reliable jumpshot. He's hands down one of the best big man shooters in the league. Finally, Miller doesn't have nearly the strength that Yao does or the dominant postup game. Adelman might mix it up with Yao, and that's fine, but a lot of you (Vspan, Novak supporters) call for coaches to play to a player's strengths. The high post was well suited for Miller, but it's not nearly as well suited for Yao. Even if Yao is as effective as Miller is (which he isn't) in the high post, he's twice as good in the low post. What's most ironic to me is that so many high post Yao supporters were talking **** about his fadeaway 15 footers this playoff series that usually didn't even hit the rim. What shot do you think he's going to get in the high post..?
Last year we had "no money or tradeable assets" to make any significant moves and we got Battier, Snyder, Bonzi, Novak, & VSpan. So never say never. If there is a will there is usually a way. Bibby has been in the league a while now, he might be hungry to play on a legit champion contender. If he comes here, we are an instant contender. If anyone could convice him, it would be Adelman...
It depends on whether the shot was created for him, or he is trying to create it for himself. If it is created for him off the bounce by Tmac or V-Span etc....then it will probably be wide open. DD
If we become Kings II, we will never win it all, simple as that. If Adelman does take over, he has to design offense and defense for Yao and T-Mac and get the best of them.
