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Special Comment about Bush and Sacrifice

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by FranchiseBlade, Jan 3, 2007.

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  1. FranchiseBlade

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    I won't bother to post the whole article. Of course I think it is worth reading but I will let anyone interested do that on their own.

    The comment deals with Bush's reported plan to send up to 20,000 new troops to Iraq, not to act as traines but help with security in Iraq.

    Anyway, there is one part that Keith addresses that we hear over and over from war supporters. "If we leave we show terrorists our weakness." "It will embolden the terrorists take on more attacks, because they will believe we aren't strong enough to fight them." Keith's response is dead on.

    The whole article is here if anyone cares to read it and discuss this aspect or any other.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16442767/
     
  2. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    I saw the whole segment live last night and it was chilling. Here's the entire comment.

    ----------------------

    Olbermann: Special comment about 'sacrifice'

    SPECIAL COMMENT
    By Keith Olbermann


    If in your presence an individual tried to sacrifice an American serviceman or woman, would you intervene?

    Would you at least protest?

    What if he had already sacrificed 3,003 of them?

    What if he had already sacrificed 3,003 of them — and was then to announce his intention to sacrifice hundreds, maybe thousands, more?

    This is where we stand tonight with the BBC report of President Bush’s “new Iraq strategy,” and his impending speech to the nation, which, according to a quoted senior American official, will be about troop increases and “sacrifice.”

    The president has delayed, dawdled and deferred for the month since the release of the Iraq Study Group.

    He has seemingly heard out everybody, and listened to none of them.

    If the BBC is right — and we can only pray it is not — he has settled on the only solution all the true experts agree cannot possibly work: more American personnel in Iraq, not as trainers for Iraqi troops, but as part of some flabby plan for “sacrifice.”

    Sacrifice!

    More American servicemen and women will have their lives risked.

    More American servicemen and women will have their lives ended.

    More American families will have to bear the unbearable and rationalize the unforgivable —“sacrifice” — sacrifice now, sacrifice tomorrow, sacrifice forever.

    And more Americans — more even than the two-thirds who already believe we need fewer troops in Iraq, not more — will have to conclude the president does not have any idea what he’s doing — and that other Americans will have to die for that reason.


    It must now be branded as propaganda — for even the president cannot truly feel that very many people still believe him to be competent in this area, let alone “the decider.”

    But from our impeccable reporter at the Pentagon, Jim Miklaszewski, tonight comes confirmation of something called “surge and accelerate” — as many as 20,000 additional troops —f or “political purposes” ...

    This, in line with what we had previously heard, that this will be proclaimed a short-term measure, for the stated purpose of increasing security in and around Baghdad, and giving an Iraqi government a chance to establish some kind of order.

    This is palpable nonsense, Mr. Bush.


    If this is your intention — if the centerpiece of your announcement next week will be “sacrifice” — sacrifice your intention, not more American lives!

    As Sen. Joseph Biden has pointed out, the new troops might improve the ratio our forces face relative to those living in Baghdad (friend and foe), from 200 to 1, to just 100 to 1.

    “Sacrifice?”

    No.

    A drop in the bucket.

    The additional men and women you have sentenced to go there, sir, will serve only as targets.

    They will not be there “short-term,” Mr. Bush; for many it will mean a year or more in death’s shadow.

    This is not temporary, Mr. Bush.

    For the Americans who will die because of you, it will be as permanent as it gets.

    The various rationales for what Mr. Bush will reportedly re-christen “sacrifice” constitute a very thin gruel, indeed.

    The former labor secretary, Robert Reich, says Sen. John McCain told him that the “surge” would help the “morale” of the troops already in Iraq.

    If Mr. McCain truly said that, and truly believes it, he has either forgotten completely his own experience in Vietnam ... or he is unaware of the recent Military Times poll indicating only 38 percent of our active military want to see more troops sent ... or Mr. McCain has departed from reality.

    Then there is the argument that to take any steps toward reducing troop numbers would show weakness to the enemy in Iraq, or to the terrorists around the world.

    This simplistic logic ignores the inescapable fact that we have indeed already showed weakness to the enemy, and to the terrorists.

    We have shown them that we will let our own people be killed for no good reason.

    We have now shown them that we will continue to do so.

    We have shown them our stupidity.

    Mr. Bush, your judgment about Iraq — and now about “sacrifice” — is at variance with your people’s, to the point of delusion.

    Your most respected generals see no value in a “surge” — they could not possibly see it in this madness of “sacrifice.”

    The Iraq Study Group told you it would be a mistake.

    Perhaps dozens more have told you it would be a mistake.

    And you threw their wisdom back, until you finally heard what you wanted to hear, like some child drawing straws and then saying “best two out of three … best three out of five … hundredth one counts.”

    Your citizens, the people for whom you work, have told you they do not want this, and moreover, they do not want you to do this.

    Yet once again, sir, you have ignored all of us.

    Mr. Bush, you do not own this country!


    To those Republicans who have not broken free from the slavery of partisanship — those bonded still, to this president and this administration, and now bonded to this “sacrifice” —proceed at your own peril.

    John McCain may still hear the applause of small crowds — he has somehow inured himself to the hypocrisy, and the tragedy, of a man who considers himself the ultimate realist, courting the votes of those who support the government telling visitors to the Grand Canyon that it was caused by the Great Flood.

    That Mr. McCain is selling himself off to the irrational right, parcel by parcel, like some great landowner facing bankruptcy, seems to be obvious to everybody but himself.

    Or, maybe it is obvious to him and he simply no longer cares.

    But to the rest of you in the Republican Party:

    We need you to speak up, right now, in defense of your country’s most precious assets — the lives of its citizens who are in harm’s way.

    If you do not, you are not serving this nation’s interests — nor your own.

    November should have told you this.

    The opening of the new Congress on Wednesday and Thursday should tell you this.

    Next time, those missing Republicans will be you.


    And to the Democrats now yoked to the helm of this sinking ship, you proceed at your own peril, as well.

    President Bush may not be very good at reality, but he and Mr. Cheney and Mr. Rove are still gifted at letting American troops be killed, and then turning their deaths to their own political advantage.

    The equation is simple. This country does not want more troops in Iraq.

    It wants fewer.

    Go and make it happen, or go and look for other work.

    Yet you Democrats must assume that even if you take the most obvious of courses, and cut off funding for the war, Mr. Bush will ignore you as long as possible, or will find the money elsewhere, or will spend the money meant to protect the troops, and re-purpose it to keep as many troops there as long as he can keep them there.

    Because that’s what this is all about, is it not, Mr. Bush?

    That is what this “sacrifice” has been for.

    To continue this senseless, endless war.

    You have dressed it up in the clothing, first of a hunt for weapons of mass destruction, then of liberation ... then of regional imperative ... then of oil prices ... and now in these new terms of “sacrifice” — it’s like a damned game of Colorforms, isn’t it, sir?

    This senseless, endless war.

    But — it has not been senseless in two ways.

    It has succeeded, Mr. Bush, in enabling you to deaden the collective mind of this country to the pointlessness of endless war, against the wrong people, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

    It has gotten many of us used to the idea — the virtual “white noise” — of conflict far away, of the deaths of young Americans, of vague “sacrifice” for some fluid cause, too complicated to be interpreted except in terms of the very important-sounding but ultimately meaningless phrase “the war on terror.”

    And the war’s second accomplishment — your second accomplishment, sir — is to have taken money out of the pockets of every American, even out of the pockets of the dead soldiers on the battlefield, and their families, and to have given that money to the war profiteers.

    Because if you sell the Army a thousand Humvees, you can’t sell them any more until the first thousand have been destroyed.

    The service men and women are ancillary to the equation.

    This is about the planned obsolescence of ordnance, isn’t, Mr. Bush? And the building of detention centers? And the design of a $125 million courtroom complex at Gitmo, complete with restaurants.

    At least the war profiteers have made their money, sir.

    And we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain.


    You have insisted, Mr. Bush, that we must not lose in Iraq, that if we don’t fight them there we will fight them here — as if the corollary were somehow true, that if by fighting them there we will not have to fight them here.

    And yet you have re-made our country, and not re-made it for the better, on the premise that we need to be ready to “fight them here,” anyway, and always.

    In point of fact even if the civil war in Iraq somehow ended tomorrow, and the risk to Americans there ended with it, we would have already suffered a defeat — not fatal, not world-changing, not, but for the lives lost, of enduring consequence.

    But this country has already lost in Iraq, sir.

    Your policy in Iraq has already had its crushing impact on our safety here.

    You have already fomented new terrorism and new terrorists.

    You have already stoked paranoia.

    You have already pitted Americans, one against the other.

    We ... will have to live with it.

    We ... will have to live with what — of the fabric of our nation — you have already “sacrificed.”

    The only object still admissible in this debate is the quickest and safest exit for our people there.

    But you — and soon, Mr. Bush, it will be you and you alone — still insist otherwise.

    And our sons and daughters and fathers and mothers will be sacrificed there tonight, sir, so that you can say you did not “lose in Iraq.”

    Our policy in Iraq has been criticized for being indescribable, for being inscrutable, for being ineffable.

    But it is all too easily understood now.

    First we sent Americans to their deaths for your lie, Mr. Bush.

    Now we are sending them to their deaths for your ego.

    If what is reported is true — if your decision is made and the “sacrifice” is ordered — take a page instead from the man at whose funeral you so eloquently spoke this morning — Gerald Ford:

    Put pragmatism and the healing of a nation ahead of some kind of misguided vision.

    Atone.

    Sacrifice, Mr. Bush?

    No, sir, this is not “sacrifice.” This has now become “human sacrifice.”

    And it must stop.

    And you can stop it.

    Next week, make us all look wrong.

    Our meaningless sacrifice in Iraq must stop.

    And you must stop it.
     
  3. Qball

    Qball Member

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    This was particularly funny :D
     
  4. giddyup

    giddyup Member

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    http://boortz.com/nuze/200506/06292005.html

    HOW THE D-DAY INVASION WOULD BE REPORTED BY TODAY'S PRESS


    NORMANDY, FRANCE (June 6, 1944) Three hundred French civilians were killed and thousands more were wounded today in the first hours of America's invasion of continental Europe. Casualties were heaviest among women and children. Most of the French casualties were the result of artillery fire from American ships attempting to knock out German fortifications prior to the landing of hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops. Reports from a makeshift hospital in the French town of St. Mere Eglise said the carnage was far worse than the French had anticipated, and that reaction against the American invasion was running high. "We are dying for no reason, "said a Frenchman speaking on condition of anonymity. "Americans can't even shoot straight. I never thought I'd say this, but life was better under Adolph Hitler."

    The invasion also caused severe environmental damage. American troops, tanks, trucks and machinery destroyed miles of pristine shoreline and thousands of acres of ecologically sensitive wetlands. It was believed that the habitat of the spineless French crab was completely wiped out, thus threatening the species with extinction. A representative of Greenpeace said his organization, which had tried to stall the invasion for over a year, was appalled at the destruction, but not surprised. "This is just another example of how the military destroys the environment without a second thought," said Christine Moanmore. "And it's all about corporate greed."

    Contacted at his Manhattan condo, a member of the French government-in-exile who abandoned Paris when Hitler invaded, said the invasion was based solely on American financial interests. "Everyone knows that President Roosevelt has ties to 'big beer'," said Pierre LeWimp. "Once the German beer industry is conquered, Roosevelt's beer cronies will control the world market and make a fortune."

    Administration supporters said America's aggressive actions were based in part on the assertions of controversial scientist Albert Einstein, who sent a letter to Roosevelt speculating that the Germans were developing a secret weapon -- a so-called "atomic bomb". Such a weapon could produce casualties on a scale never seen before, and cause environmental damage that could last for thousands of years. Hitler has denied having such a weapon and international inspectors were unable to locate such weapons even after spending two long weekends in Germany. Shortly after the invasion began, reports surfaced that German prisoners had been abused by American soldiers. Mistreatment of Jews by Germans at their so-called "concentration camps" has been rumored, but so far this remains unproven.

    Several thousand Americans died during the first hours of the invasion, and French officials are concerned that the uncollected corpses will pose a public-health risk. "The Americans should have planned for this in advance," they said. "It's their mess, and we don't intend to help clean it up."
     
  5. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    Keith Olbermann tells the truth.

    Neal Boortz spins the same old lies.
     
  6. FranchiseBlade

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    Actually the press would see the sense in fighting Hitler and liberating a nation that had been taken over by the enemy and Hitler's army. Those kinds of casualties and military actions would make sense to today's press. However that component isn't present in the war in Iraq.
     
  7. hotballa

    hotballa Contributing Member

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    I'm not a fan of Bush or Iraq war but considering that we were reading stories about the damage we were doing to Afghanistan during the attack right after 9/11, I have to say that there is some truth to Boortz dig at the press.
     
  8. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Interesting...

    I have a question.

    I would hazard to say that the US had alomst 100% support of the press, the country and the world for what we did in Afghanistan. Now where did that support go for Iraq?
     
  9. FranchiseBlade

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    Perhaps there might be. But it is an exaggeration, and it is ridiculous to compare Iraq where we invaded a non-threatening nation, to Hitler and WWII where he was taking over and invading all of Europe and had also declared war on the U.S. In addition the planning for WWII and Iraq are at opposite ends of the spectrum. While the press might bring in ciriticisms in that aren't always related they would certainly mention the origins of the conflict if they were as relevant as WWII.
     
  10. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    I want out of Iraq as soon as possible, but that was very funny.
     
  11. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    And you'll also recall that the overwhelming attitude towards that war was, and is, supportive. Frankly, supportive along the lines of, "You've got to break some eggs to make an omelet." Reporting of that conflict has been pretty fair, in my opinion. Reporting of the invasion and on-going war in Iraq hasn't been as good. (that's my opinion as well) Far too little digging for the truth, far too few critical questions of Administration policy, and far to little really tough questioning of this President and his conduct of this war, and much else, until recently.

    George W. Bush has literally gotten away with murder, with the support of the GOP Congress. That Congress finally paid for it's perfidity last November. Bush continues in office, living in a construct of his own imagination. Hopefully, the nation will survive during these last 2 years without yet another unneeded, voluntary war, with years of the death and maiming of our own people, the few allies we have left, and the innocents who litter Iraq's cemeteries and hospitals.

    edit: mc mark, the answer is blowin' in the wind.



    D&D. Howdy.
     
  12. Pipe

    Pipe Member

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    I found the article hard to read - the author kept repeating himself ....

    usual apologies to JV ;)
     
  13. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    maybe they would also say something about progress being made.
     
  14. hotballa

    hotballa Contributing Member

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    well you know where I stand on Bush and Iraq, so we'll both probbaly wind up with the same answer lol
     
  15. hotballa

    hotballa Contributing Member

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    Well technically, Germany never directly attacked us either. =P

    I'm just saying that there is an element of the press who seemingly MUST write a story about how our big bad war is affecting the farming capabilities of a family or how we're destroying a 500 year old tradition or whatnot. Not that the Bush Administration hasn't clairvoyantly wagged the dog by portraying the press as its #1 enemy (always the mark of a wannabe gestapo state IMO).


    I think that the Iraq war has been questioned from Day 1, and that criticism from the press has been only intensifying since, and rightly so.

    Why is it that we can look back at the worst dictators in history and find something redeeming about them (Adolf was a painter!), but yet dig in our heels with the opinion and absolute conviction that our current leaders are disillusioned fools without any whatsoever redeeming quality.

    I think Bush is an incompetent nincompoop who is in way over his head, but to hear some of the criticism from people, it really makes you wonder.
     
  16. basso

    basso Member
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    ......
     
  17. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    That was not how Desert Storm was reported. We went in, liberated a sovereign nation that had been invaded, and drove the invaders out, just as we did on D-Day and the subsequent war.

    The current Iraq fiasco was an elective war, not based on provocation or impending threats of any kind. THAT is why the reporting is different. Boortz needs to go out and rent a clue if they are so expensive that he cannot own one.
     
  18. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    Not because they didn't want to, because they never had the ability. They did declare war on us long before we helped out with troops.

    I think he was talking about the action in Afghanistan, an invasion that was supported by virtually everyone in the US AND the rest of the world too.
     
  19. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    EXACTLY.

    Especially with a Republican in office. We all know that the liberals have prioritized their political standing over the well being of our troops and our nation's foreign policy. That hasn't been a secret in years.
     
  20. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    Wow. I never knew George W. Bush was a liberal.

    You sure do learn something new everyday here at the CF.Net BBS D&D!

    :D
     

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