It is interesting. The ideology of the neocons who control both the US and foreign policy is the same, with the same results.
Here i a more detailed analysis of how the Israeli overeaction is uniting the Lebanese and hurting Isrel and their patron the US, *********** Anger in the Arab World Rashid I. Khalidi In what passes for analysis of the war involving Israel, Lebanon and Palestine in US and Israeli government circles, in the well-oiled PR machine that shills for them, and in much of the US media, we are told about a struggle against terrorism by a state under siege. The basic argument is that Israel is "responding to terrorist violence," and that the only real question is, How soon will Israeli force, backed by American determination, prevail? But this scenario has little to do with reality in the Middle East. There will be no "destruction" of Hezbollah, and no "uprooting" of its infrastructure or that of Hamas, whatever the results of Israel's siege of Gaza and its merciless attacks against Lebanon. The rhetoric about "terrorism" has mesmerized those who parrot it, blinding them to the fact that Hezbollah and Hamas are deeply rooted popular movements that have developed as a response to occupation--of the West Bank and Gaza for nearly forty years, and of southern Lebanon from 1978 to 2000. Whatever one might say about the two movements' callousness in targeting civilians (a subject on which Israel's defenders are hardly in a position to preach), both have won impressive victories in elections and have provided social services and protection to their people. The Lebanese government will not do Israel's bidding in south Lebanon. The deep divisions in Lebanon over Hezbollah's military presence before Israel's blitz began are rapidly disappearing. Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora, Lebanese Speaker Nabih Berri, Saad Hariri (son of assassinated Prime Minister Rafik Hariri), Gen. Michel Aoun, President Émile Lahoud and other major leaders of the country of all sects and all political persuasions and Lebanese public opinion have been horrified at Israel's ravaging of their country's infrastructure and its defenseless civilian population, yet again. Few indeed will be the Lebanese voices to support the Israeli-US position as this savaging of Lebanon goes on--and just because it is largely absent from US television does not mean that it is invisible to the rest of the world. Iran and Syria, Hezbollah's principal allies, will not come out of this conflict weaker, even if it develops into a regional war involving either. The United States has been threatening both for several years, since 9/11 released the cowboy in George W. Bush. Their positions have been strengthened by the bulldozer-like obtuseness of US policy on Hamas and Hezbollah, never more so than since Israel fell into Hezbollah's trap and overreacted to the capture of two of its soldiers and the wounding of several of its civilians in mid-July. A war with either of these countries, or a serious effort to overthrow either of their unsavory regimes, will in the end weaken either Israel or the United States or both, should they escalate this dangerous international crisis. The pro-American Arab regimes that initially foolishly aligned themselves with the United States and Israel over the Lebanese crisis have shown their regret by backpedaling as fast as they can. Public opinion in their countries is massively against their position (Al Jazeera's viewership is way up; that of the Saudi-run Al Arabiya is way down) and is making itself felt. Fortunately for the Bush Administration and Israel, none of these countries have a functioning democracy. The net result of this crisis, however it comes out, will be a further weakening of these regimes. They may temporarily increase their dependence on the United States. But they are weaker than they were before this crisis began, and their oppositions, whether in Cairo, Amman or Riyadh, are stronger. Israel's regional power decreases when it escalates the use of force against Palestinians and Lebanese. This has been the case for the last couple of decades--the 1982 invasion of Lebanon, the first intifada of 1987-90 and Hezbollah's defeat of Israel in south Lebanon in the years leading up to 2000 are all examples--and it will happen again. The United States has discovered the same thing (at least the majority of the population in the reality-based community, not in the never-never land of the crazies who run our Middle East policy), as the use of massive force in Iraq has produced a similarly massive weakening of the US position throughout the Middle East. The United States has experienced a decline in its power and influence in the region unparalleled in the post-World War II era. Much depends on whether an Israeli, American or Israeli-American war with Syria and, much more serious, Iran can be avoided. If escalation of what is already a major war in Gaza and Lebanon can be prevented, the conflict's regional effects will be mitigated..... http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060814/khalidi
America's credibility will be a casualty of Israel's war Whatever reasons arabs ever had to trust washington are going up in smoke By Marc J Sirois Daily Star staff Thursday, July 27, 2006 First person Marc J. Sirois Lebanon is being systematically dismantled by one of the world's most fearsome military machines, and the bombs are not just wrecking Lebanese infrastructure and killing Lebanese children: They are also making a shambles of US credibility in the Middle East. Washington's effort to pose as an even-handed broker in the Arab-Israeli conflict has always been a ridiculous affectation, but George W. Bush's reaction to the war that started on July 12 has set new standards for a public fiction that no one likes to mention. In essence, Bush and his administration have decided that the primary goal of US policy at this juncture should be to buy time for Israel so it can keep pummeling its hapless neighbor. At the same time, however, the United States claims an unshakable commitment to the Lebanese people and professes to be concerned about the survival of Prime Minister Fouad Siniora's government. This self-evident contradiction is just the latest permutation of America's long history of trying to have it both ways, so it has not exposed a sinister "secret angle" of US policy. It has intensified speculation, however, as to precisely what that policy is. Bush's drive to "democratize" the Middle East has largely been reduced to obligatory rhetoric, which is a good thing because his linguistic deficiencies are not nearly so deadly as some of his other failings. The misbegotten project in Iraq has plunged that country into a maelstrom of sectarian bloodshed, but it has had the salutary effect of demonstrating the folly of neoconservative ideas about reordering the region according to fancy instead of managing it based on fact.... http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=1&article_id=74278
let me give you guys some optimistic news: This stupid conflict in the middle east will never end. There's never been peace there, remember the crusades? moses? jesus? the romans? alexander the great? the persians? the ottomans? The day it does end, the Rockets would have won their 20th championship and president Vernon Maxwell XXI would be king of the United Federation of Planets.
do you guys realize why there are conflicts in that area as opposed to us north americans? the countries in the middle east are based on race or religion. so obviously nothing can be resolved because one country/group believes that their race/religion is correct. 'holy wars'. the USA, Mexico, and Canada are based on money. sure we have race and religion, but the true factor is money. what is the majority of crime in the US for? money. what is the majority of crime in the middle east for? religion we can't hate each other because we are too busy trying to make that dollar. oh, what's the most powerful country and richest country in the world? oh that would the USA. why? cause we care about money more than anything else.
DEATH to ISLAMIC FACISTS!...DEATH to ISLAMIC FACISTS!... btw, thanks Israel, for helping to fight the Islamic Facists...Kill them all demmit!!!!
ROXRAN, earlier this week somebody posted a link to another BBS where I think you would be much more welcome, since you can find many who share your beliefs on this subject. http://www.rr-bb.com/forumdisplay.php?f=58 Maybe you should spend some time over there instead of over here.
And all this time I thought money was the root of all evil. Man, it looks like religion is the root of all evil. Somebody should send a memo to God.
I do not think Islamic Facists is an appropriate label. The radicals in the Middle East are hardly the pro business/corporate crowd. I think they would be better called Islamic Zealots. If your going to spew hate and anger all over the place, at least label your enemy correctly.
Exactly!! Think about it, there are lots of different religions here. we dont descriminate by race/religion. we descriminate by money. money gets you the good meals, cars, clubs, shows, houses. we may think we are descriminating by race, but its money, they think these people might rob us or we shouldnt go here cause we might get car jacked, not because its their religious duty. Religion makes you close minded. Money makes you open minded, when you have more money you have more options, more choices. Money makes you creative, you think of better ways of getting more money. you go to grad school so when you leave you can make more money. Think about what defeated or changed our "ENEMIES". Russia? their ECONOMY.. China, wow, they are communists, but suddenly they like selling us some cheap mp3 players and tvs. what does north korea and iran fear the most from the USA???? ECONOMIC SANCTIONS
That site is friggin SWEET! Sammy, did you take a look at some of the threads? I didn't think that many paranoid delusional could find one spot to congregate and fantasize about the "end times" other than the RNC!!
Oh it is hilarious. My only regret is that it's not accepting new registration. My favorite part was their thread about global warming, where most of them are pretty much trashing Al Gore and global warming as a bunch of unproven fantasy bullsh-t.... ....I mean, WTF guys??? Last time I checked, this was a Rapture/End Times/Apocalyptic website. If you're predisposed to think the world is coming to an end, why the hell are you dissing global warming? Because you oppose gay marriage? LOL.
I'm going to keep it as is...I don't buy you...Sorry about the hate and anger interpretation. I've been listening to a lot of pissed off music like Slipknot, Rage, and Drowining pool as I'm cleaning my A2 commando right now. I've installed a new 3# JP trigger on it...The rapid fire capability is incredible...Don't worry about the SBR issue because I sent in the tax stamp on it and got approved...of course... It's very loud though...I guess that is the prob. with the SBR, but they do look "cool"...You have to use the 69 grain sierra match king rounds to get reliable fragmentation/and great stopping power for home defense...In my M16 and M4 semi auto variants, the cheaper M193 55 gr. FMJ rounds are fine and actually preferable since they fragment well...The Winchester White box M193 that are made in ISRAEL are the best besides Federal's XM193 which should be used by the military instead of M855 (which doesn't fragment as well inside 100 yards) After renting the MP5 at the range, I'm not impressed with full auto honestly...It keeps wanting to climb. Semi-auto is the way to go, but heavier OTM rounds are best for one shot stop ability...and if you read all this aren't you kicking yourself now?
The truth is Olmert is one big p***y. He started this sh*t campaign against Lebanon and Hezbollah on the premise that that he would remove Hezbollah from the southern border of Lebanon to take them out of rocket range. But, he cannot accomplish that by just shelling and dropping bombs. He won't send the Israeli army in there on the ground because they will get their asses whooped. So, if you cannot clear out Hezbollah and make room for a peacekeeping force in a buffer zone, then there is no peacekeeping force coming in. Their not going to fight their way in. Israel might as well just stop what their doing and call the whole thing off. The p*****s have lost, created more political fallout for themselves, America, and Britain, and emboldened Hezbollah. He should have just stuck with the status quo and did the prisoner exchange...f*cking moron. The fact is if 8 Israeli troops were killed and 2 were ambushed by Hezbollah...then they weren't prepared enough and didn't get the job done. Maybe the response should have been to beef up troop reinforcements on the northern border of Israel? Olmert started something he cannot win because he is not going to send the soldiers in on the ground. They have already retreated under the face of soldier casulties in an ambush. They knew they would face these threats going in. So, WTF is the point of this whole thing? To accomplish nothing and be back at the standstill there was in the beginning? Thanks for nothing you f*cking r****d. And, Bush, you couldn't look more stupid on the international stage if you tried. Thanks for sending more bombs to Israel...which end up in Lebanon along with your boatloads of blankets. Here...have a bomb and a blanket. We've done our part. It's too bad Sharon had to become incapacitated. I don't think he would have been this rash and stupid to miscalculate so badly. Olmert, you might as well drop a nuke on Lebanon...you dumbass. Then, you can have Bush standing in the corner saying his most famous phrase..."Israel has a right to protect themselves" while he leaves off the rest of the catch phrase "...while they continue to occupy land they do not have rightful ownership of and are given a green light to commit whatever violence they feel is necessary".
Al-Jazeera reported that the Israeli forces have apparently 'given up' on disarming Hezbollah through force and are now withdrawing their troops from some southern Lebanese towns after failing to conquer a few Hezbollah strongholds. Apparently Olmert is halting the ground incursions along the border after taking heavier-than-expected casualties and meeting what one Israeli soldier (an American, by the way) called "the toughest resistance we've ever faced" in an attempt to carve out a 'buffer zone' roughly 2 miles inside the Lebanese border, which the Israelis hoped would later be used by an international force and/or the Lebanese military. Moreover, there is this news being reported... Lebanese government found consensus on peace http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-07-29-lebanon-sees-consensus_x.htm?csp=24 DOHA, Qatar — Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, returning to Israel for the second time in a week to try to find a way to end fighting between Hezbollah militants and Israeli forces, welcomed a proposal by the Lebanese government, agreed to be Hezbollah politicians, to end the 18-day-old conflict. Rice spoke to reporters as she headed to Israel to try to broker a deal that would clear the way for a United Nations resolution and the approval of an international peacekeeping force for Lebanon. Rice stopped in Qatar to refuel after leaving a conference in Malaysia. In Beirut, Hezbollah politicians signed on to a proposed peace package that includes strengthening an international force in south Lebanon and disarming the Hezbollah fighters, the government said. The agreement, reached at a Cabinet meeting, was the first time Hezbollah had agreed to a proposal for ending the crisis that includes the deploying of international forces. Related story:Hezbollah backs peace package Rice said based on the reports of the deal she was buoyed by the results of a six-hour Lebanese cabinet meeting. She said she viewed the accord as an endorsement of objectives laid out at last Wednesday's emergency meeting of world leaders in Rome. She said the declaration by the Lebanese government was a sign that Prime Minister Fuad Saniora was able to forge consensus in a government that included members of Hezbollah. The group's military wing sparked the current crisis earlier this month when it staged a cross-border raid in which eight Israeli soldiers were killed and two were kidnapped. "It shows a Lebanese government that is functioning as a Lebanese government," Rice said. "This has not been easy for Prime Minister Saniora. Everybody knows it's a very complicated coalition but that he is able to go back and bring his government together around a way forward is very encouraging." Saniora's proposal calls for: - Disarming militias and extending Lebanon's army through the entire country, including the south where the military wing of Hezbollah has long held sway. - Deploying a lightly armed international force to provide security alongside the Lebanese army. - An exchange of Israeli and Lebanese prisoners. - The return by Israel of the disputed Sheba Farms area along the border. — Maps of minefields left over from Israel's occupation of southern Lebanon, which ended in 2000. Rice said she expected "to go into some fairly intense, not easy give-and-take with officials" in Israel and Lebanon. "These are really hard and emotion decisions on both sides." Rice is scheduled to have dinner with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert Saturday night in Jerusalem. Israel has not yet responded to the latest Lebanese statement. A meeting to discuss troop contributions to a peacekeeping force will be held Monday in New York. It is expected to include between 15,000 and 20,000 troops, but it's unclear which countries would contribute forces or which country will take command. Lebanon favors a blue-helmeted U.N. force, which Israel has rejected in the past. The United States, which previously said it favored an independent force with a U.N. mandate, may be open to allowing the United Nations to be in charge. Rice hopes to get an initial agreement this weekend between Israel and Lebanon. She may visit Lebanon before returning back to Washington as early as Monday. That would clear the way for a meeting of foreign ministers on Tuesday at which they would forge a U.N. Security Council resolution aimed at ending the conflict and authorizing the international force. Despite her shuttling between Beirut and Jerusalem and back, Rice doesn't expect Saniora and Olmert to meet any time soon. "I do hope that as time goes on that the democratic government of Lebanon and the government of Israel will be able to establish means to deal with the outstanding issues between them," she said. Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
