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-   -   Les (http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=215488)

Plowman 02-17-2012 12:41 PM

Les
 
I've been an ardent supporter of Les for many years, but his insistence on keeping Yao forever and the decision to "reload/stay competitive" on the fly have me frustrated to say the least. He raked in the dough and forced Rockets fans to eat the last couple of years of Yao ( handcuffing Morey) without any chance of compensation that would help rebuild/reload at the time. You would think after that, Les would take a longer perspective, and let Morey do his thing. But no, instead our owner has displayed short sighted greed. He wants fans in the seats NOW without regard for what is best for this organization in the longterm. Morey's incredible abilities as a GM are a double edged sword in Les's hands. I believe if it was up to Morey, Scola would have been long gone, selling high after the WC. The same applies to Kevin Martin.(before the Stern fiasco) For that matter, it should have started with Battier. The whole direction (or lack thereof) stinks... Unfortunately, I've had this growing feeling of a massive pink elephant in the room for quite awhile now , a VERY familiar one (and I never thought I'd say this about Les) ......But is that you, Uncle? DM playing HUN's role?

Aruba77 02-17-2012 01:14 PM

I share your frustration over Les, but i don't understand the connection you make with regard to Les raking in the $ at the expense of the health of our team. Correct me if I'm wrong, but i thought all revenues from NBA merchandise and broadcasts were shared accross the league. How did Yao make money exclusively for Les? I mean, i know he increased the value of the team because he improved our world-wide popularity, and sold a few extra tickets, but beyond that, i just don't see it.

If anyone is to blame for our lack of a center these past couple of years, it's Morey (who i still think is an excellent GM, but is vulnerable to criticism on this issue). For years, it was evident that we needed to back Yao up with a quality center. We rode Deke as long as we could (and quite frankly, were lucky he was as productive as he was). When he retired, we never replaced him with a quality center, and it handicapped us for the last 3 years. David Anderson, Chuck Hayes, and Brad Miller were simply unacceptable.

At least ... this is how i see it.

mylilpony 02-17-2012 01:19 PM

i thought les's business increased in china when yao was on the team. I agree that we should have actually tried to rebuild, but we're stuck with this half ass attempt. but damn, did you hear chase is in the dunk contest?

theprof 02-17-2012 01:59 PM

I love Houston and all but if you made 10 mil+ a year do you want to live here?
Really? The only thing we can sell people is no state income tax, oh and T's. :) But you have to wonder if any of the max players would accept a deal here.

Les is doing what he can but there hasn't been much to do. We went after Bosh and got ignored. I actually thin this team is ok. People were begging for Dalambert and iggy, and now we have one of them for half the price. It's frustrating but I don't blame Les.

Actually, I do blame him for making games boring to attend. The empty first level corporate seats get all the attention. The upper deck folks get a dude throwing 6 t-shirts from the rafters, and the occasional whistle/clap dude with the cheerleaders that aren't on the floor. So much more promotion could be done...

Scionxa 02-17-2012 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprof (Post 6638179)

Actually, I do blame him for making games boring to attend. The empty first level corporate seats get all the attention. The upper deck folks get a dude throwing 6 t-shirts from the rafters, and the occasional whistle/clap dude with the cheerleaders that aren't on the floor. So much more promotion could be done...

Yes, it used to be a lot more fun to attend games a few years ago. Also, every single game I have been to this season, the half time entertainment are some little kids.... doing hula hoops or other stuff like that. What's that about? Oh, and I guess we had a gospel singer against the Suns too. lol

Aruba77 02-17-2012 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprof (Post 6638179)
I love Houston and all but if you made 10 mil+ a year do you want to live here?
Really? The only thing we can sell people is no state income tax, oh and T's. :) But you have to wonder if any of the max players would accept a deal here.

Let's hope you don't have to love Houston to be a Rockets fan. I've had enough humidity and swamp-ass to last a lifetime.

solid 02-17-2012 02:51 PM

He looks harmless enough, but I think he is our Jerry Jones, rich but doesn't know squat about the sport and thinks he does.

IBTL 02-17-2012 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plowman (Post 6637995)
I've been an ardent supporter of Les for many years, but his insistence on keeping Yao forever and the decision to "reload/stay competitive" on the fly have me frustrated to say the least. He raked in the dough and forced Rockets fans to eat the last couple of years of Yao ( handcuffing Morey) without any chance of compensation that would help rebuild/reload at the time. You would think after that, Les would take a longer perspective, and let Morey do his thing. But no, instead our owner has displayed short sighted greed. He wants fans in the seats NOW without regard for what is best for this organization in the longterm. Morey's incredible abilities as a GM are a double edged sword in Les's hands. I believe if it was up to Morey, Scola would have been long gone, selling high after the WC. The same applies to Kevin Martin.(before the Stern fiasco) For that matter, it should have started with Battier. The whole direction (or lack thereof) stinks... Unfortunately, I've had this growing feeling of a massive pink elephant in the room for quite awhile now , a VERY familiar one (and I never thought I'd say this about Les) ......But is that you, Uncle? DM playing HUN's role?

Sorry but Les is the man.

Les brought us drexler,pippen,barkley,rice,francis,mcgrady,mutumbo,artest,m artin

/thread

IBTL 02-17-2012 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aruba77 (Post 6638217)
Let's hope you don't have to love Houston to be a Rockets fan. I've had enough humidity and swamp-ass to last a lifetime.

In Houston you can get your mansion for 170k and eat at pappadeaux everyday. If you live in other cities you wont get jack crap in Manhattan/San Francisco for less than millions.

Restaurants, going to the 'klub' is going to be more a young players lifestyle than a night out in Santa Monica or a night out in Scottsdale.

From that point of view Houston is way better.

alethios 02-17-2012 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plowman (Post 6637995)
I've been an ardent supporter of Les for many years, but his insistence on keeping Yao forever and the decision to "reload/stay competitive" on the fly have me frustrated to say the least. He raked in the dough and forced Rockets fans to eat the last couple of years of Yao ( handcuffing Morey) without any chance of compensation that would help rebuild/reload at the time. You would think after that, Les would take a longer perspective, and let Morey do his thing. But no, instead our owner has displayed short sighted greed. He wants fans in the seats NOW without regard for what is best for this organization in the longterm. Morey's incredible abilities as a GM are a double edged sword in Les's hands. I believe if it was up to Morey, Scola would have been long gone, selling high after the WC. The same applies to Kevin Martin.(before the Stern fiasco) For that matter, it should have started with Battier. The whole direction (or lack thereof) stinks... Unfortunately, I've had this growing feeling of a massive pink elephant in the room for quite awhile now , a VERY familiar one (and I never thought I'd say this about Les) ......But is that you, Uncle? DM playing HUN's role?

I think it was mentioned before that Morey was brought in to build a strong supporting cast for Yao and McGrady. But since that plan fell through, all we're left with is a supporting cast and no star to show for it. But I can't figure out who's at fault for this fiasco, if there really is a person to blame - Les for insisting on a win-now philosophy, all the while staying below the salary cap or Morey for not using his instincts, but rather analytics a la Moneyball to fit decent players together at the best price, and in my mind, insinuating to the league that any Rockets player is a trade asset, thus making it appear like there's no loyalty here.

Corrosion 02-17-2012 03:13 PM

Im one of those who would rather rebuild .... But ....


No one likes to lose.

mgraye2969 02-17-2012 03:17 PM

http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/197699-...videobombs.gif

NotInMyHouse 02-17-2012 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBTL (Post 6638291)
Sorry but Les is the man.

Les brought us drexler,pippen,barkley,rice,francis,mcgrady,mutumbo,artest,martin

/thread

:mad:

MadMax 02-17-2012 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aruba77 (Post 6638073)
I share your frustration over Les, but i don't understand the connection you make with regard to Les raking in the $ at the expense of the health of our team. Correct me if I'm wrong, but i thought all revenues from NBA merchandise and broadcasts were shared accross the league. How did Yao make money exclusively for Les? I mean, i know he increased the value of the team because he improved our world-wide popularity, and sold a few extra tickets, but beyond that, i just don't see it.

.

I've posted this a bunch before...here's a breakdown of what Yao meant to Les, exclusively:

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.p...&postcount=375

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMax
They're not talking about NBA dollars when they talk about Yao being a cash cow. Alexander had zero business interests in China before 2002...since then, he's involved in a ton of very lucrative business deals. Yao has been a gateway for him to public/private partnerships there he wouldn't be exposed to otherwise...i posted this before

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.p...1&postcount=25

i'm just gonna say it:

i think other NBA owners...wealthy men...might bring him on so they can see if some of his magic works on them...something like the opportunities below.

but these opportunities are exactly why Les isn't going to trade Yao...at least I don't think he will. HIs business interests in China are considerable and diverse at this point...all of this happened since we drafted Yao. He literally started Rocket Capital Investment to take advantage of this.

http://www.nba.com/rockets/communit...307773-822.html

After six years of cultivation, Alexander launched Leslie Wine in 2008, which is currently selling four exceptional 2007 vintage wines exclusively in China.


http://www.mlive.com/business/ambiz...40805182170.xml

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=146352

In the latest venture through his Rocket Capital Investment company, Alexander has teamed up with San Antonio billionaire Billy Joe "Red" McCombs. The joint venture has invested in Brilliance China Automotive Holdings Ltd., one of the country's largest automakers.

Alexander's other holdings in China range from railways to mining, but the automotive deal represents his largest direct investment in a publicly traded Chinese company.

Kenneth Huang is the key executive behind the scenes at Alexander's company. The managing director and senior partner of Rocket Capital was the first college graduate from China to work at the New York Stock Exchange in the 1980s.

Huang now focuses on partnering deals for investments in major Chinese state-owned and private enterprises. He met Alexander through SportsCorp China, formed by Huang to promote closer sports and sponsorship ties with the United States. SportsCorp China players include the Houston Rockets, the National Basketball Association and the New York Yankees.

http://chinalegal.blogspot.com/2008...-hong-kong.html

. Rocket Capital Investment

The firm was established by the mainland basketball star Yao Ming's finder of Leslie Alexander, to cash in on his new mainland business connections. Mr. Alexander is its sole investor, and Forbes magazine estimates his worth at US$1.5 billion.

In 2007, the firm poured US$200 million into some of Hong Kong's biggest IPOs. In 2008, the firm is planning to invest another US$200 million to focus instead on buying listed shares and making other types of investments, but will be more careful this year, according to its managing director of Kenneth Huang...


daywalker02 02-17-2012 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solid (Post 6638280)
He looks harmless enough, but I think he is our Jerry Jones, rich but doesn't know squat about the sport and thinks he does.

I guess he knows MORE about PICASSOS.

Plowman 02-23-2012 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBTL (Post 6638291)
Sorry but Les is the man.

Les brought us drexler,pippen,barkley,rice,francis,mcgrady,mutumbo,artest,m artin

/thread

I feel you big time, IBTL.
Hey, I'll always hold our titles and Les's efforts to win more close to my heart. Like I said, I've been an outspoken supporter from the get go. But as we've entered different phases of his ownership, cracks have started to show. He obviously bought/inherited a team with plenty of talent. Accordingly, Les was always ready to green light the big move while our window was open. As a native Houstonian, I appreciate that.

Going all in can cut both ways though as it doesn't always work out, leaving a big mess. And, it can also become addictive. After winning our first title, he makes the move for Clyde and it's all good. But then you have the trade for Big Sexy. Now, this deal has been debated for a long time. We WERE on our way to a title when Chuck went down, but there are plenty that did, and still have problems with moving those guys out. Anyway, Les feeling the Midas Touch, is making huge deals/shelling out $$$ to take advantage of the window...Enter Scottie Pippen ....an unequivocal failure on all levels...lazy, drinking, and overrated. Later, with Stevie in the fold, Les backs up the truck to the tune of 42 million for Kelvin Cato....and finally follows that by parlaying them into the known to be less than 100% /immature Tracy Mac....At the time, most of us were on board( means to an end at minimum)....Still, interesting trend developing.....I know you win some and lose some. But, this Big Splash philosophy is evident in his actions today.....at a time when we should be rebuilding ...displaying patience. Lord knows he's made enough through Yao and we're finally free of those monster contracts...loaded with enough a$$ets and capspace to make hay.
Flash forward to the plan involving the attempted deal for Gasol and subsequent Nene signing. Sure, Herr Stern was out of line, but he most likely saved us from ourselves (Les). This would have made us "perennially good" (without a shot a title) and put fannies in the seats ....that's it. Again, it's my belief that Morey has positioned us to make big noise down the road(even if we don't get Howard and DWill, which is unlikely)...and for a long time. Already though, we have reached a point of diminishing returns at a crucial point in this cycle of the organization's existence. Under normal circumstances the future wouldn't look quite so bright....But, Les has the WIZARD. He just needs to relax, adjust his timeframe, and take the chains off DM.....

Plowman 02-23-2012 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alethios (Post 6638319)
I think it was mentioned before that Morey was brought in to build a strong supporting cast for Yao and McGrady. But since that plan fell through, all we're left with is a supporting cast and no star to show for it. But I can't figure out who's at fault for this fiasco, if there really is a person to blame - Les for insisting on a win-now philosophy, all the while staying below the salary cap or Morey for not using his instincts, but rather analytics a la Moneyball to fit decent players together at the best price, and in my mind, insinuating to the league that any Rockets player is a trade asset, thus making it appear like there's no loyalty here.

I think going from being able to "feed the window", to one foot in and one foot out of rebuilding(but with an eye towards a reload), and finally where we are now is an amazing feat by DM. Most players realize the NBA is a business and the time where players stayed with one organization for their careers is sadly long gone. Free agency also cuts both ways.


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