The more I review last year's games the more I am convinced..

Here are some simple shooting numbers from the Rockets:

Ply FG 3%
JP 44 33
SF 44 35
CM 43 35
JH 39 42(only 30 attempts)
TM 46 22

Here are some simple ones from guys than benifit from TD
SJ 44 32
MG 44 35

Of all these numbers, two things stick out and neither belongs to Posey--Hawkins FG% and Tmo's complete lack of 3 point ability. James Posey is not a bad shooter-- 3 point or otherwise. He isn't a great one--and his FG is pretty bad when he has had to be the #1 or #2 option--but the two times he has played on teams as the 4th or higher option he has shot 44 & 33 and 43 & 37 (rookie year when Den had NVE, McDyess, Raef). His offense is good enough to keep you honest--while his defense, rebounding for his position, and intangebles (fast break, team attitude, work ethic) are all big time bonus.

HP perhaps the Rockets major problem is forcing TOs. Posey is by far the best front line player in forcing TOs and he also is by far our best front line player relative to his position in rebounding--in the former case losing Posey further cuts into a major problem we already have, in the latter case something we finally did well (rebouding) is going to slide down.

Here is another tidbit. Do ya'll know both Ginobili and Posey are 26?

Enough about Posey though. I agree with the other assements-- I'd like to bring back Tmo for the minimum and have Hawkins for the minimum too. They are not close to Posey replacables, completely different level of talent, but Tmo is a good fairly young 9th-10th man and Hawkins is a good 12th man/injury protection player who you also know appreciates being a Rocket in ANY role. That said if it came between Tmo and getting Harvey or Demarr for the same price (1 mil?) I'd go with young more talented latter swingmen.

 

So, the weaknesses are shooting, pg, and banger, right? Well, we got Piat, now give Best, Jackson, or Raja Bell a call. Then stick it out w/ Eddie and Mo or get B. Grant. Not a bad off season.

That being said, we lose Pose and all of a sudden u have another weakness on your team. 24 mil is not that much for him. Its just.......its all Mooch's fault

 

Good discussion so far...I really have little to add other than to ask..

HP and codell..

If Posey's strengths do not equate to what weaknesses we currently have...what additional weaknesses are exposed without him?

In other words, what skills does Posey have that no other Rox players have and do we need them?

 

As others have pointed out, mainly, we lose his D, rebounding and finishing skills.

IMO, JVG and CD are hoping that Snackbar can fill the rebounding and finishing skills part. Of course, his D will not compare to Posey's. Posey's shot will hardly be missed. So in the end, if everything plays out, we lose his D and thats about it IMO. I think this team can mask that if EG and Yao develop as we hope by erasing mistakes.

Posey's D is not worth that money IMO. Given Pike's shooting touch, we needed that more than what Posey brought.

 

Nice thread DearRock. I basically agree with each of your player breakdowns and more or less each of your posts so far. Good stuff.

 

Man, you know I have (and have had for a long time) big hopes for both Eggie and Boki...but what happens...and you know I hate to say this..if Boki doesnt pan out like we hope and Eggie continues to be nothing more than a bricklaying weakside defender?

How easy is it for us to find a SF who can defend like Posey and has the ability to finish. and thats not even discussing the hustle plays that you know he is capable of.

Dont get me wrong...I wont be heartbroken if we dont match...but I'm just a little scared that if we lose him, there will be no one to take up the slack.

 

I cant really figure how I have anything more to add to this debate either, however, I love a good heated conversation.

IM not a big Eddie fan at all, if anyone reads some of my posts they will automatically see that. IM however a Posey fan, but I cant really figure out what the big attraction is for Mr. Eddie. I have heard your arguments of streaky Posey is, but my God people, you cant get much streakier than Eddie G.

His shot is suspect, his defense; He isn’t a good one on one defender at all, he just slides over to someone else’s man, and gets that block (Which is fine, you cant take those blocks away, they are good, IM not saying that they aren’t) but if we are wanting a great defensive player, Eddie isn’t him.

He isn’t strong at all he is very weak for a Power Forward in this league. Maybe if he gets stronger he could contribute more.

His heart is virtually missing. Wilt Chamberlin in his current state (dead) would play with more heart than Eddie G. does. You say, well Tim Duncan is like that, no Tim Duncan isn’t! Eddie Griffin sleepwalks through EVERY game I have ever seen him play.

I guess all IM saying is, we cant say that Posey is streaky without saying that Eddie is streaky.

 

THats the big risk. Will Boki pan out and help offset the facets of Posey's game that we lost?? Maybe, maybe no.

We can really only hope for the best at this point. Especially with Eggie. I really think the 3rd year will be the charm for him. We don't need him to be a 20/10 guy. If he can bump up his game and give us 14/8 and 2-3 blocks, I think most everyone would be satisfied.

Hustling can be replaced, especially if JVG gets through to the players.

In the end, I am somewhat optimistic that an improved Boki and the shooting of Pike will almost offset what we lost with Posey.

 

I have to say once again this is a very interesting thread to read and I agree with everyone.......especially Desert Scar and Sofine81! Great points!

Eddie is going into his 3rd year already. He has been working out hopefully and has abstained from the stuff Damon Stoudamire does hopefully. Hopefully JVG will teach him the basics and give him a nice role where he can excel and help Steve, Yao, and Mobley. He hasn't been traded YET!

Terence Morris is a good role player. I don't know why no one has signed him yet! He's a fantastic 12th man....I think the Spurs may sign him. So long TMo.

Posey is gone too. The Rockets have already publicly stated that Piatkowski is a replacement for Posey and that they won't resign him. But CD has also said that they will examine the situation...But I don't think they will resign him. Goodbye to you too!

Instead, we now have Eric Piatkowski. Our core has remained the same with SF, YM, and CM. Now we just hope that Eddie Griffin and Mo Taylor step up and be more effective...and that Bostjan Nachbar isn't a bust!!

Even though we lost 2 of our guys...and Collier and hopefully Maddox, we can still end up as #6 in the West. That's pretty good...we better resign Hawkins though!

 

But Utah is rebuilding to the point of where they are not going to jump at a low production/high contract player unless its one that is going to vastly improve their team. Mo would just be filling a hole for them and nothing else. Does brining in Mo improve their team enough to offset his contract??? I would think not.

If Utah really desired a player like Mo in exchange for cap space, don't you think they would have done something by now?? You are really overestimating Mo's value around the league. If he was desireable to any team, KT would still be here and he would be elsewhere.

How are you figuring we are competing with the Lakers, Spurs, Mavs, Kings and Wolves??? These teams are championship contenders right now. We are just hoping to make the playoffs. We are not really in their league going into the season.

 

Les Better GET POSEY BACK !!!

 

Well...sometimes big rewards come of big risks..may Lady Luck be on our side this year.

At this point, I'll fall back to my default settings and remain hopeful that JVG can inspire a fresh attitude towards winning and teamplay..

If not, it's gonna be a looong season.

 

I feel the same way. Alot of posters are mad about not retaining Posey and not signing or trading for any big time players, but I am looking at the bright side:

New coach
EG's with another year under his belt
Yao's expected improvement
Steve and Cat possibly refining their bad habits under JVG
Boki being given his shot finally
Mo T coming in healthy and a year past his injury
New Arena
New Logo
New Uniforms

There is alot to look forward to. I am excited!!!

 

I agree Griffin is a better man-defender than people give him credit for. His greatest weakness is strength. And sometimes he loses concentration and thus loses his man. But he has quickness. When he puts his mind to it, he can harrass his man pretty good. I, too, noticed his defensive performance against Duncan last year.

As to Posey, I think most people here agree that he is a solid player to have. What we don't agree is whether he is worth the money Memphis is giving him. I remember before this deal was up, most people here said that he's worth about 4 mil. per year. Anything more than 5 was too high. Now, all of a sudden, people are bashing CD for not matching a contract more than 5.5 a year.

DS argued that Posey's shooting not being too bad when he's not the first option. But looking at his numbers, I found that while his rookie year was quite decent, his shooting in the second year dropped significantly. During the second year, they still had NVE and LaFrentz, and McDyess most of the year. His took about the same number of shots and significantly less 3-pts. Yet his % drop to 41% and 30%. That tell me that his shooting were not improving, and probably had little to do with whether he was the go-to guy. Rather, he is inconsistent.

Of course, Posey's offense is way better than Hawkins and TMo. But he is also making about 5 times as much.

 

Rockets2K and HeyDude,

Codell answered your questions well, imo. Of course, when you have a quality guy like Posey, you lose something when you lose him. But we are set to fill that lose more than we are close to filling our real serious flaws.

The one thing Codell didn't say is that I simply do not think SF defense is that important in the West...when compared to PF defense. You don't build a defense from perimeter in. You build one by taking the reefer out of Eddie's hands and slapping him upside the head or trading him.

Plus, Posey doesn't really help us with rebounding...that just shows our weird transfer of rebounds numbers from frontcourt to backcourt. The guards and SF rebounding numbers on this team are skewed, because our overall rebounding is weak.

The rebounding ability of this team rests on EG, Yao Ming and Cato's ablities....not some SF...unless his name is Shawn Marion.

 

HP,

I disagree a little when it comes to Posey not being an important rebounder. He is not a Shandon Anderson by any means. What i mean is, if SA got his own rebound, he could not start a fast break by himself. Didnt have the handles. He would have to give the ball up and run the floor, which he was excellent it. Unfortunately, Steve is no Stockton, and it was a waste of energy.

Pose, however, has decent handles. I remember plenty of times, he would rebound, and instead of giving up the rock, take off with it and go all the way. This actually gave Steve more confidence in Posey and would look for him more on the break, resulting in all the alley oops.

I remember one game Pose did that, we were up by 2 w/ a minute to go. He rebounded and instead of slowing it down, took off the other, did a spin move and finished in transition. U need players like that, especially w/ Steve and Mooch being NOT the best people when it comes to pushing the ball!

 

DearRock keep these quality posts coming. FREDTERP