I'm not a Lakers fan, haha. I've been a Rockets fan since day one. Artest has a better outside game: he takes (71% to Ariza's 56%) and makes (.471 eFG% to Ariza's .420) more than Ariza. However, Ariza blew Ron Artest out of the waters in the playoffs in this department but that had more to do with Artest taking terrible terrible shots and Ariza uncharacteristically making shots (47.6% from three). Ariza's jumper has been improving every year so there's reason to believe he'll continue to do so.
I didn't mention Battier as a comparison for his total game - I mentioned him to illustrate my point about a player without ball handling ability who doesn't turn the ball over. As far as their total games, I agree, they aren't similar. As far as the distinction between Ariza not being able to create and 'not affecting teams in a negative way when he does put the ball on the floor', I don't think I have seen anyone posit the counter to the latter claim. The former is relevant in rebuking some unwarranted assumptions being tossed around regarding his overall abilities. He won't hurt the team with his lack of handles, but he won't help the team either. That's completely fine, I'm not making a value judgment, just pointing out the distinction for the integrity of analytical purposes.
I never was claiming that Ariza can create shots because he doesn't turn the ball over. In fact, I never said anything about Ariza being able to create, he can't (or hasn't because he played for the Lakers). To me, creating shots and handling the ball are two different things. Rafer Alston could handle the ball but could not create shots. Battier is still not a good comparison when talking about handling the ball because Battier doesn't put the ball on the floor at ALL while Ariza does it regularly.
To be honest I don't see why trading Battier suddenly makes sense now that we got (are going to get) Ariza. You simply can't have too much good defenders on your team, I predict these two will complement each other perfectly just like Artest and Battier last season. More importantly, a lineup of Lowry, Ariza, Battier, Hayes and Dorsey makes me go
5-star thread. We need more people who use their heads and evidence to make their claims, instead of just making stuff up. Thanks, KevC!
Thanks, I love the fact that our GM uses objective stats to evaluate players and make decisions. The best approach is to evaluate a player I think so see how he produces on the floor and supplementing it with proper scouting to see if the numbers make sense.
Sorry for the bump but I was looking at the self-shaming thread and found this thread, which was one of the first thread that I have created. It's not like there is anything else interesting in the GARM these days. I think reading the comments in this thread is interesting. It's a bit embarrassing, not really because I had an optimistic view of Ariza (I think most of us did), but how naive my analysis was. Ariza's year with Houston was a failure because of one reason only - his shooting absolutely went to sh~t when he was a top option. His defense was still solid (though he never caused turnovers like he used to in LA ever again), he passed better, but he was an absolutely atrocious shooter. Here's to hoping he finds success as a third or fourth option role player here in round 2!
One of your caveats to Ariza doing well was that his shooting efficiency held up while his usage increased. Obviously, that wasn't the case, because he didn't have the ball handling necessary to get open off the dribble. The next season, when he wasn't asked to handle the rock, his efficiency reached an all time high.
The main problem the first time was we were trying to see if he could be the lead dog. That dog didn't hunt. He can't create or run an offense. He's a catch-and-shoot or catch-fake-drive-finish type of guy offensively. Defensively he's gotten even better. And I really think his shooting has improved as well. He's a great "fit" for this team at that salary. Easily trade-able as well as long as his game doesn't go backwards in a hurry.
So I did some research last night(preseason NFL game was boring) Player PPG per 36 RPG per 36 APG per 36 SPG per 36 BPG per 36 3P% Chandler Parsons 15.9 5.3 3.9 1.1 0.4 .370 Trevor Ariza 14.6 6.3 2.5 1.7 0.3 .407 While the Rockets will undoubtedly miss Parsons' passing ability (he averaged 2.2 more APG per 36 than Ariza, while committing only 0.2 more turnovers per 36), Ariza's superior 3-PT shooting, noticeably seen in last year's playoffs, will help offset the passing loss. As the table shows, Ariza is a better 3-PT shooter than Parsons. In the playoffs; however, Ariza further justified this claim, as he connected on 25 of his 56 3-PT attempts, netting himself a .446 3P%. In contrast, Parsons' 3P% fell during the playoffs compared to his regular season, as he connected on only 13 of his 36 3-PT attempts, for a .361 3P%. While Ariza brings elite 3-PT shooting to Houston, what really separates him from Parsons, and makes him the more valuable asset, is his defense and contract value (compared to Parsons’). Player Defensive Win Shares Win Shares Win Shares per 48 Trevor Ariza 3.7 8.0 .141 Chandler Parsons 2.5 7.6 .131 Ariza leads Parsons in every category. Take into account that win shares are dependent upon a team's total wins for the season (as in players on the Spurs roster will collectively have had more win shares than players on the Bucks roster last season). The Rockets won 54 games last year, whereas the Wizards, Ariza's former team, won only 44. The fact that Ariza was able to rack up more win shares than Parsons, while his team won 10 less games, only adds on to the claim that Ariza is the higher value player.
Ariza already helping the Rockets win games! 100% forgot about this until now [youtube]7oqSokjncZ0[/youtube]
Contract year is over, Ariza will revert back to his normal bricking self just like the first time he was here. You guys who pretend to be talking stats keep ignoring the most glaring stat, every time he got a new fat contract, he sucked until it's his contract year again. It's 100% accurate so far and I wouldn't be surprised to see it happening this coming season. Keep hyping him up guys, you will only get more disappointed.
He averaged over .36 3pts the last 3 seasons, but they were all contract years so don't worry he'll go back to bricking.
Ariza reworked his 3 point shot to have less of a flick in it (less sling, more push), that's the main reason for his improved 3's, so unless contract years change someone's shooting motion, i'm not really sure the risk.
