Could Duncan be just as good or better than the dream

i could be wrong but i believe jabbar only lost out on one year of shotblocking stats. iirc, he started in 71-72, blocks started in 72-73, could be wrong. hakeem is fairly far ahead of him. that may be the 7.8 blocks vj23k was referring to (i.e. he needed 7.8 bpg in 71-72 to actually be equal which of course he didn't average).

as far as wilt and russell. yeah i'm sure they'd be one and two, just like in rebounding. but we'd all know it doesn't really mean that much when comparing them to today's players. hakeem wouldn't have been averaging the same 10 rebounds a game back then while russell and wilt averaged 22+ nor would he have averaged his same bpg while russell and wilt averaged like 7+. it's almost good they didn't count blocks just to actually make it fair to the people coming next who had more balance competition.

as far as the BEST hakeem being worse than the current duncan? please tell me timmy D had a gun to your head when you posted that. and even then, it better have been a big gun.

 

I remember once when Dennis Rodman won Defensive Player of the Year....someone responded..."Yeah, Dennis is great at stoping the other team's best player....but Hakeem is great at stopping the other team."

Watching games with and then without him were entirely different...when he was there, guards were so less likely to penetrate...to even attempt to penetrate...but when he was injured or out of a game for some reason, the floodgates opened up.

I have never...ever...never...seen a player dominate at the pro level in any sport the way he did in the playoffs of 1995. On both ends of the court. Jordan had some amazing playoff runs...but watching Hakeem, a big man, dominate during the playoffs against the very best teams in the league was simply amazing. There were few things that man could not do. He could shoot outside...he could trip you up going to the hoop...he was a tremendous defensive player...he was great at finding the open man off the double team....he had amazingly quick hands for steals.

There was one Hakeem Olajuwon. There won't be another. That doesn't mean he's the best ever...but he was so unique. Tim Duncan is amazing...but he doesn't have the grace that Hakeem did. Hakeem made the big man game look good, too...and that's not easy to do. The absolute contrast to the raw physical game of Shaq.

 

A-Train before Malik

 

Yupp, EVen if those "8 blocks a game" recollections are true (and they would be scored as blocks), they were playing in an era with starting forwards were like 6-2 and 6-3, playing below the rim and with guys taking two handed set shots. It's just not the same thing.

 

No two eras are the same, but that doesn't me we say David Robinson scored the most points in a single game. Hakeem is good enough to stand on his own real accomplishments. People bringing up the "all-time shot block leader" stat just lowers him in my eyes because most people realize that he only holds that record because it hasn't been kept since the beginning.

 

Let's look at the FACTS:

More Blocks per game: Hakeem
Most blocks career: Hakeem
Most steals per game: Hakeem
Most steals career: Hakeem
More defensive player of the year awards: Hakeem
More times named all-nba defense: Hakeem
Spent postseasons getting raped by Hakeem and Shaq: Admiral

-Only an idiot or homer would take all these facts into account and say something as stupid as David was a better defender. If David was such a great defender, why did Hakeem and Shaq simply humiliate him in the postseason? Why did he not get the Def player of the year awards?

 

Big guys now get all time defense for getting almost 3blks a game, Hakeem during his early yrs used to get 4,4.5 blks along with 14rebs and 23pts. Most people will look at Hakeem and say 92-95 was his peek yrs, when really hakeem was a bad man his early yrs like Jordan. Jordan was avg like 35pts 8rebs and 8asst like his 2nd or 3rd yr in the league but had no help. Hakeem in the same fashion was very,very dominant when he was a super athelete. Duncan is a really good player, but Hakeem was a really skillful player to go along with being a super athelete. Imagine Rasheed Wallace at 250lbs and Tim Duncan offensive skills and a mix between Gary Payton and Ben Wallace on defense. That was Hakeem. He could blk 4 shots a game, get 2 steals, grab 13 rebs and put down 25pts and drop 3 asst. Go and check his stat line vs Sea in the 93 finals with like 49pts 20 rebs 9blks and steals and just a stat line stuffer.

 

Wow. Duncan's performance tonight.. even something the Dream would have to shake his head to... DOMINATING ala Hakeem

 

I wouldn't try to pit them against each other - just enjoy the greatness. Timmy is playing in a zone that makes him unstoppable. Jordan played in that zone. Hakeem played in that zone. Others have played in that zone. He's on a mission. Enjoy the play.

 

Yes Duncan's game was brilliant. But Hakeem had these kinds of games in the finals matched up with frontcourts of:

Patrick Ewing
Charles Oakley
Anthony Mason

and

Shaquille O'Neal
Horace Grant

Versus Duncan went up against

6'9 Kenyon Martin
Jarron Collins

I'm not discounting Duncan's performance, but Hakeem would have torn that front court to pieces. I absolutely love Duncan's game, but to compare him to Hakeem is rediculous on either end of the floor. Yeah, they beat the Lakers, but Duncan NEVER was defended or did he defend Shaq. I give my props to David Robinson for slowing Shaq down. But duncan was matched up against Robert Horry?!?!?! C'mon.... Hakeem ALWAYS defended the team's best big man.

 

Game 6, 4th period; please watch the tape. Duncan on Shaq, Shaq on Duncan. Duncan dominated.

 

For most of that series against the Lakers, Shaq and Duncan never matched up. When Shaq was defending Duncan throughout their history and that series he was very tentative and got blocked a few times.

I like Duncan much better than Shaq and am a great proponent of his. But lets not get carried away and compare him to Dream yet. Honestly, he just doesn't dominate the game offensively or defensively like the dream did.

Dream would destroy the other teams tempo by not only blocking shots, but swarming defenders. He had the quickest hands and would steal the ball like a guard. Teams wouldn't dare to bring it in the paint. I think Duncan is a better passer and decision maker out of the double teams at this age than the dream was, but Dream would make something out of nothing and score over double and triple teams whereas Duncan almost always passes it off unless he does his jump hook in the middle.

 

I had a big debate before about this and finally proved that Hakeem was indeed better. Not only did he have stiffer competition, but he put up better numbers. There is a graphic I made, but cant seem to upload it? Are attachments not allowed?

 

No just find a place to host it it should be fine, you could link to it from the other board where you posted it.

 

I don't think there is anything to argue here.

Scoring - Duncan never has averaged 26+ points per game in a season. Dream did it 4 times.

Rebounding - Duncan has never averaged 13.0 rebounds or more per game, Dream did it 4 times.

Steals - Duncan has never averaged 1 .0 steal per game, Dream did it 17 times, 4 straight years over 2.0 per game.

Blocks - Duncan has never blocked 3.0 or more shots per game, Dream did it 8 times, including 3 years over 4 per game.

Duncan has had a great year, and an ever better playoff. He is great, and he may be one of the greatest post players ever. But, right now, he in not on Dreams level.

Duncan is having a great playoff at 25,15, and 3 blks/game. Dream put up 24, 14 and 4.6 blks/game for the entre 1989-90 season.

Someone mentioned Game 6 of the WCF this year, and Duncan was great. But go watch the 1995 Finals. I'll take an entire series over 1 game.

 

Cato=Bum and MrSpurs both made very biased comments so I'm not going to get into that. Other posters made some good points.

What I want to add is that DRobinson is not really a traditional type center (I'd call him a KG type player) so it's not fair to compare him to the Dream. As for Duncan, he's a lot more like the Dream, but he's still very young, so it's not the time to start comparing those 2.

1 more point, and that is the number of titles really doesn't matter when comparing players, because that depends too much on other players and coaching. I know Rockets fans won't like this but if MJ didn't go to play baseball who can guarantee the 2 titles the Rockets got? If there's no shortened season the Spurs won't win their first title also.

 

.............I am speechless.

............I am speechless again.

You are saying that if that year had gone the full 82 games, then the Spurs would not have won the title. How did you come to this conclusion? Based on what?

 

You know what would be awesome? If Duncan would actually play against a team that won 50 or more games in the Finals. That would be awesome.

 

As long as finals is East V. West, it's going to be several seasons before the finals is competitive. Dallas won 60 games. Finals, from the rearview mirror, was played LA v. SA - esp. when Webber went down.

 

That's a very bad argument to make. If you're saying his Championships are due to the opponent then do you also think both of the Rockets championships are * because MJ was retired one year and only camer back for 1/2 of the next year.

A championship is a championship.