Why D&D will never change anyone's mind about anything

I've learned an incredible amount of goodness from many posters here, though it is hard to keep an even keel and ignore the obvious trollidiots.

 

You have to win the reader as the author. That's why I don't read **** cause I'm the author of my lectures.

 

I've changed my stances to things from DnD posts. The argument has to be good though.

 

ATW convinced me to hate Muslims

 

ATW teaches love, not hate.

 

I cannot change another person's mind. Only they can do that.

I can influence them in that regard, but I cannot change them. In fact, forcing the issue is likely to only increase the recalcitrance. It's surprisingly subtle too.

It took me a while to understand that. Probably takes everyone some degree of time. Some never learn.

 

I think you can change peoples ideas even if they are deeply held, but it happens slowly over time. You just have to keep hammering them with truth until their preconceptions crumble, You have to turn their peer group one by one until they are the outsider, You have to point out their hypocrisies until their defense response can't muster up a rebuttal.

Slavery, separate but equal, gay marriage, mar1juana.... hard core beliefs that changed or are changing.

But paid advocates don't even share their real feelings, they will say whatever they are paid to say as long as they are paid to say it.

 

I think fchowd and perhaps to some degree Azadre are people who have changed their mind over time on some issues.

 

The only person that can change a hard held belief is the one that is holding onto that hard held belief. Nothing external can do it. The person have to come to a realization at some point that the belief is not correct (if in fact it is not). There are some that are willing to consider questioning their beliefs (a simple honest question of why is this true to me could open a crack) and so have a chance of changing it. There are many that aren't willing or even aware of their beliefs.

I think if you look at brain scan, I think you see that beliefs are like hardened habits pattern (neurons in brain firing together with some formed sequence). It's hard to change, but we have learn in the past few years that the brain is actually quite malleable and can change.


somewhat related
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104310443

 

I thought the OP had left D&D "forever?" Was that someone else? If so, my bad!

Oh, and I've altered some thoughts about some stuff because of D&D. For example, it showed me the true worth of the Ignore Feature. Also, thanks to Mad Max, I no longer believe that 3rd trimester abortions should be an option, unless the life and/or health of the woman who's pregnant is in danger. That's quite a change for me.

 

Agreed, my views on abortion changed dramatically after conversing with MadMax, what a fantastic poster.

 

That's what YOU think.

 

If this guy doesn't change your mind on many things, you are beyond hope.

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What's interesting is most people are trying to use this to learn how to change OTHER people's minds.

You need to be more open to changing your own.

 

Considering the nature of the D&D, this place is more like a battleground than a place for debate.
The environment needs to change first and foremost. Because at its current state its just a place to win points for your "team".

 

You have changed your mind about leaving the D&D for good. And about being a neo-con or a leftist.

 

Hrm. I've changed my views on states being 'laboratories of democracy', late-term abortion, corporate tax, consumption/income tax, and affirmative action partly because of the D&D.

 

It's not just ideological beliefs that are hard to change, but any sort of belief that you associate with your self-esteem. I work at a job where I recommend changes to projects other people built. Can you imagine the initial hostility?

When people are deeply passionate about certain ideas, products, places, sports teams, celebrities, etc., there is an investment of personal worth. It's why your entrepreneur friends will hate your guts when you criticize their product, your wife will freeze you out when you comment on her appearance the wrong way, and many others.

I mean the war on this board in the last 2 years clearly demonstrates this. I'm not sure if any extremists on either side of the Lin debate are actually interested in convincing anyone. The crappy use of stats, the fear-mongering, and the trolling are all not about convincing others, but about demonstrating to themselves that they are right. Because their self-worth is on the line.

Straight up persuading someone that their strongly-held belief or idea is wrong is an unwise approach. When self-worth on the line, it's the equivalent of telling someone he/she is stupid. Would you listen to someone if he/she told you you were stupid as a way of starting the conversation?

I've found it helpful to listen/read everything first, agree to consider the points (even if objectively invalid) and ask questions (while thinking through the problem together). That way, you show respect (you value the other person's self-worth) while exposing inconsistencies. The best possible scenario is where the other person tries to answer the questions you pose and arrives at the inconsistency. Then he/she can start the process of finding the right answer.

It doesn't always work. Some people are so invested they are unwilling to sustain any challenge to their belief. Studies have shown that the more someone declares publicly some belief, the less they are willing to disassociate with it. But most people are actually fairly willing to do this, as long as you do not pre-empt them with a "you are stupid" line.

Alas, no one has the patience for all this on this board and many more have invested too publicly on one side or the other. Much easier to "expose" or "declare" the other side's "stupidity".