Tom Savage - Texans' fourth round (#135 overall) pick

Bridgewater below Bortles? But,but we have a thread on here that has Bridgewater possibly being the best to ever play the position and Bortles wasnt even in the same category. Surely you wouldnt suggest otherwise.

 

If Clowney is who everyone thinks than he shouldn't.

 

If we're not winning games it won't matter how good Clowney is. And if the Jags finish with a better record than us _ ouch....!!!

 

I'm actually not suggesting anything it was just a random hypothetical.

 

I don't see why.

Savage can't really be a total bust, given where he was taken.

 

If Clowney is as good as we think he might be, than him and JJ Watt will win a lot of games.

 

Because the single most important position on the field is quarterback and it also happens to be this team's biggest weakness. When you had the opportunity to take whichever one you wanted, you decided that none were worth it, meaning that you didn't think any were a sure bet to be a franchise QB. If the QB taken at #3 is a franchise QB, then you made the wrong pick and that is a knock on your QB evaluation skills.

 

JJ won 2 games last year. Team needs a QB.

 

I think the first sentence is the wrong way to look it. JJ didn't win 2 games last year, the Texans lost 14 games.

The second sentence is dead on though.

The only player on a team that impacts the game enough INDIVIDUALLY to be attributed wins and losses is the quarterback. Having the best defensive player in the league doesn't win you squat. Having the best quarterback in the league is almost a guaranteed playoff spot.

 

Savage has no chance to be a bust. But Clowney has every chance to be the wrong pick even if he is the next Julius Peppers.

I don't think he will be, because I'm not that enamored with any of the QBs as a franchise QB(average QBs are available through other means). But the possibility's there.

 

Seattle's defense didn't just get good. That has been a good defense for a while but they were hovering around .500. They went from a 7 win team to super bowl champs once they found Russell.

And on top of that. If the Texans don't fix that secondary _ both J.J. and Clowney will just be a waste.

 

I guess the argument is that if one of the top QBs turns out to be "successful", then Clowney was the wrong pick even if he is Julius Peppers. My question is what is a successful QB? what type of career must one of the top QBs have to consider clowney the wrong pick? Examples:

Tom Brady? - one of greatest QBs of all time; multiple super bowls
Eli Manning? - good QB who got how at right time; multiple super bowls
Matt Ryan? - good QB with lots of wins and no super bowls

I think if Savage gets to Matt Ryan levels we should be please considering where he was drafted.

 

Well on top of their defense not just getting good, they weren't the product of a few outstanding players. The Seahawks have talented up and down the defense with some of their depth players being guys that would start for most teams.

That is great and makes it easier to win without a dominant QB, but it's not sustainable. The Seahawks can't pay all of those defensive players their value so attrition will begin to knock that roster out. The only way it's maintainable is if they keep replacing guys they lose with equal or better production through the draft. That is incredibly difficult.

 

If Savage is any of those three QBs I'd be thrilled. On that list, if Blake Bortles is as good as Matt Ryan or Brady, then passing on him for Clowney was a mistake. If he's Eli then it is debatable depending on good Clowney ends up.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000350599/article/tom-savage-houston-texans-strike-fouryear-deal

not sure if posted before...

 

If any of the QBs we passed over become great, we made the wrong pick.

But on the flip side, if none of the QBs taken in the first 2 rounds turn out to be anything special (this is not exactly out of the realm of possibility....), then that is a complete validation of your QB evaluation skills.

 

Everyone has a different answer. For me, a list of QBs I would trade for Julius Peppers, assuming both players at the same age in their primes, include QBs like Ryan, Eli, Rivers, Big Ben, RG3(if fully healthy).

You probably have your own standard. But really just ask yourself whether you'd trade Clowney for a hypothetical QB and if the answer is yes, then it's yes.

 

And the team entered the season as a SB favorite because of their defense, which got terrible quickly.

Personally, I think QB is an overrated position. It is nearly impossible to win with a terrible QB, but you don't need a great QB. You need a guy that doesn't turn it over, and can get first downs.

 

If Aaron Murray turns out to be great I don't think that means Clowney was the wrong pick.

To be the four QBs that will be most damning if they work out are Bortles, Bridgewater, Manziel and Garrapolo. Those are the 4 QBs that had the highest marks in the draft and you had the chance to have them and you decided that none of them were franchise guys.

I don't know about Eli because I think he's one of the more overrated QBs in the NFL, but in general I agree with the point you are making. Best defensive player in football isn't as valuable as one of the top 15 or so QBs.

 

If you have the best defense in the league, then yes, all you need is a guy who doesn't turn the ball over and then you have to hope you don't get dinged with a bad pass interference call, a special teams touchdown, an unlucky fumble, or something like that which makes it hard for you to comeback.