[ClutchFans] The numbers are clear: Patrick Beverley deserves to start over Jeremy Lin

He's not a real rockets fan man simple as that. Only trying to troll rockets fans who want what's best for this team as indicated by our win loss when either player plays alone

 

Beating the best teams out there is what this is about for me. So no, those wins against lesser teams do not factor in at all for me when arguing about whether Lin should start. I want to know how he handles the best out there. Handling Milwaukee is something 90% of guards in the NBA can do. Beat the Knicks? Not impressed. Handle San Antonio and I'm watching that game closely.

If the playoffs started today and we are playing the Spurs, I might start Lin. He plays extremely well against them for some reason. I think he is every bit as smart as Tony Parker and it shows on the court. If we are playing someone like Golden State, sure, start Lin. If we are playing Chris Paul or Westbrook or another of the strong/athletic PGs in the league, Bev all day.

Lin shrinks against some competition. He does worse against playoff teams. This is a playoff team, so if we are headed that way, play the guys that help us the most in playoff situations.

Lin is scoring 13.3 ppg this year. He averages 11.8 against playoff teams. His turnovers go from 2.7 to 2.9 and his minutes go from 31.1 per game to 29.6. His assist numbers drop from 4.5 per game to 3.0 per game. He's doing more bad stuff and less good stuff in slightly less time.

If this all makes me a hater or whatever you want to call me, fine. I love Jeremy Lin. The plays he makes are super exciting. I've cheered louder for him than Beverly because of this. He's got vision that just doesn't really exist in any of our other players, including Harden. But I love the Rockets more and what is best for the Rockets hasn't changed. Beverly belongs in the starting lineup. Lin is awesome off the bench. It's perfect, but only if you like the Rockets.

The problem is simple. People are favoring one player over a team in a team sport. It's like listening to a person cheer for their fantasy players. They don't care about winning, they want their one player on the team to get all the touchdowns while the players should play hot potato.

I would love for all the Lin fans to flip and become Rocket fans. This would be so much easier to talk about because we'd be on the same page.

 

Like I have already said before, I have no problem with Lin coming off the bench. You were the one who brought in the games Lin won without Bev and that it indicates that Bev is a better player than Lin. But you didn't show the games Bev won or has lost playing without Lin. And that half hearted "stats", if you can even call it that, is what's pissing people off. And you can't even indicate with these kinda stat who is the better player. And with these kinda stats I mean the "Lin won games without Bev" stats...

And again you show only Lin stats against playoff teams... If you are gonna talk about players stats then show the stats of every players you mention.

 

Why do you care so much about games where he padded his stats? We beat most of those same teams with Aaron Brooks starting and Canaan coming off the bench. The important thing in those wins is not losing to a team you should beat. Measurement of a player is done in playoff and playoff like atmospheres. It's always been that way and it's been that way in every sport. The tough get going when the going gets tough. I just don't see Jeremy elevate his game, other than a few times this year.

If Jeremy scores 55 points against non-NBA players in some summer league game, should those be used in this argument too?

I'm sorry if my "half-hearted" stats aren't good enough for you. Apparently the ones Clutch posted earlier aren't either. It seems that the only stats you Lin fans care enough to post are the insignificant ones that show he should start. AKA his wins against the bottom of the NBA. Who cares. To be the best, you gotta beat the best. Until Jeremy shrugs off his no compete clause when playing great competition, I'm about Beverly.

Lin has the skills, but lacks that championship heart that Bev has. That dude gives everything he's got. That's why he starts. Oh and he elevates his game against playoff contenders: 9.6 to 11.0 ppg.

Stop being a half-hearted fan and join the good guys. It's fun to be a Rockets fan. You can cheer for Beverly, Brooks, Canaan AND Lin!

 

PBev has the skills, but lacks that championship hearts that Lin has. That dude Lin gives everything he's got. That's why he should start.

This is my opinion. Stop putting down your rocket player if you are so call rocket fan. Let's cheer for Lin, Brooks, Canaan And Beverly.

 

Soooooooooo clever.

Are you really questioning me being a Rocket fan? When did you become a fan of this team? Me? 1993. Beginning of the season.

I do cheer for Lin, said that earlier. I was behind the basket when Lin got his first career triple double and I was violently motioning for Harden to pass the ball to Lin. I got pissed when Beverly had the assist from Lin, but gave it up for his own assist when one step and a layup would have sealed the deal. But I'm a Rocket fan and when my players don't play as well as they are capable, I criticize. So when I see Lin put less into the game against the stiff competition, I criticize because I want him to do better... you know, like he does against second to last place, Philly.

 

Wait, Bev lacks heart? Do you watch games? Bev has BY FAR the most heart on our team he doesn't take any plays off and gives it his all every second. Dude what you said is so unbelievably incorrect

 

Look you were the one who started posting the insignificant stats. Stats that can't even measure or comparing players to eachother and then you say that Bev is the better player by using those stats...

When you posted the stats, you only show Lin's stats. So that means you have an agenda against Lin. What Clutch did was way better than how you are "trying" to prove a point. Clutch showed both players stats, while yours was only this: "games Lin won without Bev". You didn't show "games Bev won without Lin" stats. And even then you didn't show the games Lin and Bev lost.

So don't try to compare yourself how Clutch put his arguments with your own. Clutch has very valid arguments, because he shows both sides, while you can't even do that simple thing.

And now you bring in "championship heart", another insignificant thing trying to compare players, which can't even be measured. See you are the one who is putting Lin in a "negative light". You speak poorly of Lin while praising Bev.

Your arguments are just plain wrong. And usually when someone is saying that Lin should start, they use stats that praise him and not by putting other players down, like you have done. What you are doing is just offending people.

 

So you didn't like my stats because you "feel" like they don't matter? Competition level breakdown is "insignificant"? I put Bevs playoff type game stats right next to Lins. Did you read the results of what I found?

 

If you look at this stuff from a different angle, you will notice how biased you are.

So we are 2-2 against non-playoff teams when Bev is the only one playing.

We are 9-1 against non-playoff teams when Lin is the only PG playing.

And if you look at the lost games, we have 50% of them lost to non-playoff teams when Bev is the only one playing, and we have only 20% of them lost to non-playoff team when Lin is the only PG playing.

We are trying to win a championship but we need a home court advantage first. The 2-2 will not gets it done, but 9-1 will. We still have half a regular season left, and it is kind of stupid to ignore all those non-playoff team at this stage.

 

Lol show that stupid bias ass fool what's up! Lol get him! :grin::grin:

 

If Don was running the Rox, he'd trade Lin straight up for Felton in a heartbeat

 

Actually, the bigger problem I see with this comparison is that 2 of the losses in the Lin without Bev column are against our 2 worst possible matchups in OKC and LAC - teams which we'll need BOTH guys heathy and playing great to have any chance at beating.

 

Yes, I "feel", if you wanna call that, that "your" stats that you brought up don't matter. Yes competition level breakdown is significant, but what you did was "games Lin won without Bev". And that sort of thing is really insignificant.

And you brought up Bev's stats? Oh you mean the 9.6 to 11.0 pts?! Really now... lmfao

I've had enough going back and forth with you. Maybe next time you can bring in better arguments and not just degrading players to prove a point.

 

In the 10 games Beverley played without Lin, it was 6-4 and .600 winning percentage.

In the 18 games Lin played without Bev, it was 13-5 and .722 winning percentage.

What more do we need to say?

 

Sample size and we need two PGs.

 

For some guy, 2 games sample size is large enough to prove his point.

 

this thread needs to die...

coming off the bench or starting I dont see Lin playing PG anyways

so as a SG for this team he sucks... there is no other way to put it...

I think most LOFs have accepted Lin going to the bench...and being the 6th man...


for me personally I am fine with Lin trying to develop a 3 point game waiting for when the Rox decide to finally trade him or let his contract expire...

 

of course haters wont accept Lin sucking it up as a deferring SG

LOFs will jump in to defend.. comparing players and stats, play styles

Regular Rox fans will take offence, because the talk is all about Lin

until the next good or bad game by Lin.... and then the cycle continues

 

Because its hard to understand why you wouldn't roll out your best starting five. I mean I get that Bev placate to Harden much more than Lin, and therefor fits better. However a well coached team would play their best five and have them figure it out. Do you think Pop would sit TP in lieu of some backup PG just to avoid confrontation with his star?