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2014 Smart Phones

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by ItsMyFault, Feb 3, 2014.

  1. HillBoy

    HillBoy Contributing Member

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    There's some discussion within Micro$oft that they should buy Blackberry in order to get their government business. The recent growth in Windows Phone marketshare has been at the expense of Blackberry which now appears to be in a death spiral. They simply waited 5 years to respond to the iPhone and that has sealed their fate. Same thing with Blackberry.
     
  2. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    60+ million devices, the fastest growing market share and the number one device in 24 markets (and rising).

    I've had an HTC Arrive, Samsung Fucous, Lumia 900, Lumia 920, Lumia 928, Lumia 1020 and a Lumia 521 (my backup phone for travel). I've loved them all. I've been using Windows Phone since before I worked for Microsoft.

    The problem with Windows Phone is Apple and Google caught them with their pants down. So they had to rush Windows Phone 7 out, unfinished or it would have been too late once Windows Phone 8 was ready. It wasn't an elegant move, but it was the right one.

    Windows Phone 8 currently has all of the "core" apps built in to the main kernel and image. So to update the mail apps, music, video, Xbox, etc - they have to update the entire OS, which is a huge pain getting carriers to roll those out in a timely fashion is a nightmare. This changes in Windows Phone Blue. All "core" apps will be stand alone and can and will be updated just as quickly as regular apps by their product groups. This is huge, and will allow them to adapt much quicker.

    As far as app support goes, there isn't a single app on iOS or Android now that I can't get on Windows Phone. There are alternatives for every major app, and Windows Phone easily has the most passionate 3rd party developers and community. This "app gap" will continue to decrease as well, because now that Windows Phone, Xbox One and Windows 8 share the same kernel - apps built for Windows 8 can be ported to Windows Phone in a matter of days. And like Windows 8 or not, but 300+ million installs in less than three years, app developers aren't going to ignore that.

    8.1 will be MUCH more than just Cortana.

    IT guys won't have a choice very soon. The Windows Phone smoking gun is the Enterprise Feature Pack.

    You do realize that Microsoft can lose money in mobile and search and still be relevant right? Microsoft is not dead in any market they enter. The same was said about Xbox, where they lost money hand over fist for the first 7 years of the life cycle.

    To anyone counting Microsoft out in the mobile game, you have no idea how the company is run - and you're kidding yourselves if you think they are going anywhere but up. The market has decided, there are three players in the mobile game, and the market is clearly big enough for that. Only half of America has smart phones - plenty of room for growth, but even then Windows Phone is currently leading in 24 markets and that number continues to rise. They don't have to win the US to be a winner.

    It can catch up to both. People who think that Android has it locked up haven't watched the mobile or PC markets the past thirty+ years. Anything can happen - and it will. Only a tiny fraction of world mobile users are on smartphones currently. Like always, the enterprise will be the smoking gun. Administrators are tiring of the BYOD movement - and security teams and investors have been fed up for years.

    If they buy RIM it won't be for anything other than their patents. My best guess (no insider info here), is they will partner with RIM to offer BES and Blackberry Messenger support. Either way, Blackberry is dying - and the impending release of the Enterprise Feature Pack for Windows Phone will help drive another nail in that coffin. The only reason BES servers are still in use, is because of the investment people don't want to just unplug.
     
  3. HillBoy

    HillBoy Contributing Member

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    I place this entirely at Balmer's feet. He first dismissed the iPhone as a "toy" and refused to respond with Windows phone until it was 5 years down the road. Then he rushes out Windows Phone 7 which was a half-assed attempt only to quickly follow it up with Windows Phone 8 thereby screwing those folks who bought Windows Phone 7 and to top it off, he then goes out and buys Nokia who, at the time, was also circling the toilet bowl right along side Blackberry.

    Yeah, that's impressive but I needed something like this 4 years ago. By now, IT guys are so entrenched in the Appleverse, it doesn't make much sense for them to switch.

    Microsoft is following the same strategy it has always followed: Let the market take shape, be late to said market, lose money while slowly accumulating marketshare and win in the end through sheer persistence. Trouble is that while this worked for desktop computing, the mobile market moves far too fast for this strategy to work anymore. By waiting to allow the market to take shape, Microsoft ceded too much ground to the iPhone & Android - ground that they can never make up. Apple now makes more money selling iPhones than Microsoft makes on its entire product line. Google is pushing mobile technology to new areas like Google glass while Microsoft still can't get its act together in mobile phones.

    Don't misunderstand me: Windows Phones are great and look cool. I really like the Nokia ones but I needed something like this from Microsoft in 2009. At this point in time, they are simply "me too" products much like the Blackberry Storm were when they were introduced. As such, IT professionals, like myself, really have no compelling reason to make the switch from Android and IOS.

    Oh, and the North American & European smartphone markets are saturated. The real growth areas for smartphones are in Latin America, Asia, Africa and other emerging nations where smartphones act as the primary computing platform. Windows Phones appear to be doing OK in these low cost areas but not so great in the more lucrative North American market. It also appears to be holding its own in certain European markets but the challenge for Microsoft going forward is to gain market share in higher margin markets. With the recent change at the top of Microsoft, it will be interesting to see how just much longer Microsoft can continue to stumble along in mobile computing before the stockholders push the company toward concentrating on the Enterprise which is where they make their money now. You are already seeing calls for Microsoft to spin of X-Box and Bing because these products don't fit into that Enterprise-centric business model.
     
  4. wesnesked

    wesnesked Contributing Member

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    This is far from the case and its tough to spin it any other way..when 80% of app developers say they are going to develop for Andriod and only 30% say yes to WP8 its going to remain a problem. I could list 10 very popular apps off the top of my head(flipboard, minecraft, youtube, tinder, candy crush, pintrest to name a few) that are absent on WP8 right now. Like I said..I've owned a Windows Phone from the day they came out and have been waiting all the developers to get on board, and from what I can tell is that guys who make the apps consider WP8 as an afterthought and it doesn't seem to be changing. WP8 will fight it out with Blackberry as the 3rd OS, but surpassing Apple or Android at this point in the USA is a pipe dream.
     
  5. BiGGieStuFF

    BiGGieStuFF Contributing Member

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    They just need to hurry up and make a windows phone with an atom processor and windows 8 pro on there. A windows phone capable of running full office and intel widi tech with video out would be a big hit here in the office. laptop no more!
     
  6. wakkoman

    wakkoman Contributing Member

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    Microsoft fanboys are the funniest fanboys.
     
  7. Scionxa

    Scionxa Contributing Member

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    I love WP8, but as an IT admin. That feature pack is hilarious.



    S/MIME to sign and encrypt email
    Android already does this with third-party TouchDown Exchange application

    Access to corporate resources behind the firewall with app aware, auto-triggered VPN
    Not all VPN's are the same and I'm willing to bet this is only for Windows VPN and wont support SonicWall and Juniper Network VPN clients

    Enterprise Wi-Fi support with EAP-TLS
    I suppose this is neat if you're in an environment with Meraki AP's that are configured that way

    Enhanced MDM policies to lock down functionality on the phone for more enterprise control, in addition to richer application management such as allowing or denying installation of certain apps
    Half the policies that are useful are available already for iPhone, Android lacks in this area but it's not that big of a deal. I suppose this is pretty useful but how many corporate employees are carrying windows phones?

    Certificate management to enroll, update, and revoke certificates for user authentication
    I like this.
     
  8. Scionxa

    Scionxa Contributing Member

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    NBA Gametime
    Sonicwall VPN client
    Google Hangouts (Not that XMPP bull**** Google talk legacy clients)
    A decent alternative browser that actually lets you see embedded Youtube Videos (try it on clutchfans to see what I mean)
    For those who aren't on Nokia WP8 phones, a decent map solution
    File Explorer
     
  9. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    Casting blame is an irrelevant exercise esp. if you can't be part of fixing the problem ...and I assume you have no direct stake in MS.

    To get technical on you. iPhone was release summer of 2007 and Windows Phone 7 was release fall of 2010. So that's 3 years ...not 5.

    IT guys can't be entrenched about any technology ...because we know better than anybody that things will change ...soon. In my lifetime, we all had palm pilots, then blackberries, etc. etc. One thing I know, is somebody will invent something else and everything will change ...again.

    ...and Microsoft is maddening about that at times. But you know what, they are wildly successful at following right behind the leaders. On that front, name me one other technology company that has dominated for 3 decades.
     
  10. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    I may be a fanboy, but I am also well versed on all the facts. Unlike tech bloggers who have never stepped foot in the real world, I look past the consumer side of things. The average "fanboy" on either side of the argument doesn't do very much research. I eat, sleep and breathe it.

    The business Division (which doesn't include Windows licenses sold to businesses) makes up 1/3 of all revenue, and I have yet to see a single blogger or journalist who has a single clue how it is run or operates. Mary Jo Foley and Paul Thurrott are the "go to" sources on all things Microsoft business and enterprise, and they are so inept on the subject it is laughable.

    People like yourself have been predicting the demise of Microsoft for decades, and they are still here. Stronger, more relevant and more entrenched in business than ever.

    FYI - That is just the announced feature pack features. Stay tuned.

    If it is a Google service, Google openly blocks Windows Phone from their services - there is an ongoing battle/feud with Google and Microsoft on this issue. There is nothing Microsoft can do about it, that is on Google. This includes YouTube.

    Full VPN support is coming in Windows Phone Blue/8.1. To be launched the first week of April.

    As far as NBA Gametime, Basketball Live is a great alternative, as is Basketball Pro '14. Also, there's NBA Jam. BOOM-SHAKA-LAKA! Oh, and ESPN Hub is pretty damn strong.

    I can see embedded videos just fine. Download MetroTube. Several other free apps also allow you to play embedded videos.

    For maps, there is Bing Maps (integrated), gMaps (Google Maps), and Maps+ also works well.. For GPS, there is Waze - which is free, and fantastic.. and strangely enough, now owned by Google.

    Windows Phone and RT will eventually merge, but x86 on phones won't be any time soon - if ever. Battery life is the biggest hurdle, but also - Microsoft is pushing and moving towards sand boxed apps. With that said, I'd be pretty damn happy with a scaling my Surface 2 down to phone size.
     
  11. ChankMcStank

    ChankMcStank Member

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    All of those WP8 apps remind me of when I had a Nokia N900 that didn't have much official developer support since Nokia decided to end it's life support even though it sold better than they thought it would since it was an experimental device. All we got were apps developed by the community developers themselves like a third-party GVoice, Facebook (that was dropped before it was finished), and Google Maps apps.

    Good times.
     
  12. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    In many cases I actually prefer the 3rd party apps to the official apps anyway. Windows Phone has an extremely passionate indie developer community. A few examples of 3rd party apps that I prefer over their first party counter-parts are - 6tag over Instagram, glEEk! over Twitter, 6sec over Vine, and 4th and Mayor Over 4Square.

    Funny that you mention Nokia, because they go above and beyond the call of bringing apps and app developers to the platform with their DVLUP program. It is a pretty amazing system they have going. I wrote a blog post about it last year if you want to know more.

    With that said, most "major" apps are on Windows Phone. the only place it continually lacks is in the extremely volatile games market. Most games are popular for 3-6 months, so there really isn't any rush to port games across platforms. Seriously, do you remember Words With Friends, Draw Something, Doodle Jump, etc? All of those are flash in the pans for the most part. All are on Windows Phone, and died there as quickly as they did on iOS and Android.

    With that said, now that Xbox One is opening up to indie developers and Unity support is coming this summer, it will be a no brainer to publish games to Windows Phone. Game makers can make a game in Unity and port it to iOS, Android, Windows Phone, Windows 8, Xbox and apparently even PS4. Xbox will help drive more games to Windows Phone and Windows 8, and vice-versa.

    I don't think the average consumer knows that this March Xbox, Windows and Phone will all share the same kernel, nor do I think they know the importance of that to developers. That is where, and how they will finally catch up. It won't happen over night, but it will happen.

    A good sign that showed recently was with the release of Beats Music, which had Windows Phone support at launch.
     
  13. Classic

    Classic Member

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    How is t-mobile as a carrier? with At&t but considering a move. bad/good idea?

    tiy
     
  14. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    I have T-Mobile 4G service as a cell phone backup and for a WiFi personal hotspot which I carry with me daily. I use the hotspot all the time, and have great service and speeds as long as I am in major cities. Once you get out of the major cities, it is a crapshoot with T-Mobile.

    AT&T has better coverage, and they get all of the best phones. However, pretty much all of them suck customer service-wise. Verizon has the best coverage areas, but are most limited on device choices (besides Sprint).
     
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  15. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Svpernaut, since you are so "well versed", answer this: What is Microsoft's strategy for getting more support from non-Nokia OEMs?

    IMO, this has to happen for Windows Phone to significantly increase market share in the long term and become more than just a distant 5-8% 3rd platform.
     
  16. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    The problem is that two of the largest OEMS are direct competitors. Samsung wants it's flagships on Android now, as they are definitive Android. They did make the Focus and Focus 2 previously, and they were pretty great phones. I picked up a Focus on Craigslist for $100 bucks and used it for nearly a year as a backup on T-Mobile. The AMOLED screen was beautiful.

    Motorola (before being sold off) was owned by Google. Google hates Windows Phone (which I covered earlier), so it was no surprise that Motorola didn't make a Windows Phone. They probably still won't.

    So that leaves basically Sony and HTC. HTC has made some pretty great Windows Phone devices. My HTC Arrive was a fantastic little device - I really miss the slide-out keyboard. The HTC 8X was a solid device, but not on par with the Lumia 920 it went up against.

    LG and Dell previously made Windows Phones, and the Dell Venue was an awesome phone - but Dell got out of the handset game. LG phones were "meh" like most LG phones are.

    Sony is making a Windows Phone device. Everything leaked the past few months point squarely at a Sony Windows Phone soon.

    Nokia can easily carry the Windows Phone brand, just like Samsung has Android. It will be nice to keep HTC and Sony in the game however. Also, a few Chinese manufacturers are working on Windows Phones.
     
  17. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    How far can Nokia carry Windows Phone by itself? Not very far. Others have to get on the train or WP will stay exactly where it is without any chance of challenging Apple for 2nd place. I love HTC but they look terminally ill. It would be great if Sony could make an impact in the handset market but I doubt it.

    "Google hates WP". LOL! Microsoft just loves Android. Google is so mean while Microsoft plays nice.

    I have no problem with you being a fanboy, especially since you admit it. It's funny to observe people debating tech companies like politics or sport teams.
     
  18. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    Don't give me that crap.

    Microsoft embraces both iOS and Android, leaps and bounds more than the others do their products. There is no reciprocity from Apple or Google.. There are OneNote and SkyDrive apps on both along with Xbox Smartglass and Xbox Music apps for each. Android has Office apps for Office 365.

    The number of apps Microsoft has published on Android is proof that they are willing to play ball. 27 apps and counting in Google Play store...
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Microsoft Corporation&hl=en

    They have just as many apps on iPad and iPhone. 27 and counting in Apple stores...
    https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/microsoft-corporation/id298856275

    Microsoft has NEVER blocked Google's services from their ecosystem. Google first did it with blocking gmail calendar on Windows Phone, then YouTube apps and several other road blocks. See my previous post above for the links detailing all of the hurdles they've put in place.

    Also, if Sony can carry Android - Nokia can carry Windows Phone. They may not be popular in America, but they are adored worldwide and they have shown they can offer a wide range of devices for every kind of customer. Have they been perfect? No, but their devices have been pretty fantastic.
     
  19. ChankMcStank

    ChankMcStank Member

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    That would have been great if Nokia did that for the N900. Hell, even the community developers had to take over the task of updating the Maemo OS (adding portrait support, bugfixes, and adding new features Nokia didn't) for Nokia since they abandoned the damn thing after releasing the N9, and Meego being scrapped in the process.
     
  20. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    From the thread I posted looking for advice -- I went with the LG G2 for the price ($99) -- getting a brand new phone with those specs was too good to pass up.
     

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