[ClutchFans] The numbers are clear: Patrick Beverley deserves to start over Jeremy Lin

Great post. I might also add that Lin probably shows Bev up every practice on offense and defense and Bev knows that and respects it. This is probably why the two can get along and I like that about these guys (for now).

Anyone still remember Toney Douglas? Same type of player as Bev but better shooter, where is he now?

 

I have only read a couple of your posts, but i am convinced. You are no longer an "LOF"

 

Nice work, Clutch. I got a few questions for you regarding to these data.

1) Are those data for whole game with Beverley/Lin as starter or for the time only while they play as starter? If it is for the whole game, then it may be totally different story, Contribution from bench players might be the major factor to those data.

2) what is the W/L for games with Beverley/Lin started?

 

u would enjoy rockets basketball even more!

 

I'm starting to feel that you actually just don't understand the meaning of words that well. I wouldn't be surprised if your posts in this thread are full of logical fallacies, given the way you comprehend posts and respond to them. You're like the anti-LOF version of a troll, so I feel sort of dumb actually responding to you right now...but here goes anyways!

First, when I said you misrepresented me, I meant in the overall conclusion and point of my post. It doesn't mean I stated an opinion and you think I am factually incorrect about it (i.e., I think Lin's defense has improved in some aspects and you disagree). That's just straight up disagreement.

Second, I think it should have been obvious that I'm not saying Lin is on par w/ WB in talent. That's moronic. Is this why you think everyone is a LOF? Are you just taking a lot of comments out of context? That would explain a lot...

Third, what puffery are you talking about? I didn't have any puffery in my response to you. Where did I have exaggerated comments about Lin's skill level in my response to you? Do you know the definition or meaning of 'puffery'? I'm guessing you think puffery means "a lot of words" but sadly this is not the case.

Finally, that last bit about knowing more about basketball and stats is completely unwarranted and random. Inferiority complex much? I don't recall ever calling you out on your knowledge of basketball or stats, only maybe your basic competency in some earlier posts. That being said, I doubt you're right about that fact, and my confidence doesn't stem from my belief that I think I know a TON about basketball/stats, but rather from my presumption that you know pretty little of anything.

 

ok how did you hack your join date and can you show me how to do it?

:grin:

 

i just want to point out one single and simple fact about these numbers... while Bev. was starting, Lin was playing as a big contributor to team stats, however when Lin was starting, as a assumed big contributor to team stats, Bev. was not playing at all...
Then how can you compare these two data sets fairly???

 

There's a difference from a great post and puffery. It adds nothing to the discussion. As for Douglas, who cares. Where's Lin? He's playing backup.

 

People have a bad day over the strangest reasons on this website...lol.

 

To take your comment to heart and not make you suffer by reading too much, I'll be short and concise instead:

I'm a much smarter person than you are and I think you're an idiot. Uh oh, where does that leave us now? Unclear, but it does leave you on my ignore list

 

We love Lin. We see him as a poor man's Ginobili. Ginobili in his prime mind you.

And right now that's the kind of role we need Jeremy to take on. It's not an ignominious one. Third scorer off the bench is a vital role for any team. Think Kevin Martin on OKC last year. He was a starter for us right? Borderline all-star. Still, finds himself off the bench for a championship contender. That's what we want Jeremy to be, a vital piece on a championship contender. Not the Monta Ellis for a perennial loser.

 

Considering the vast majority of my post was stats, I am unsure how that is 'puffery' unless, again, you still think that word means "a lot of words".

And how does it add nothing? It's completely in line with most posts in this thread lol. You'll have to explain that one to me (if you weren't already on my ignore list I mean).

 

yep, great post.

he's basically a mini-harden, and we're gonna need him in that capacity in that 6th man role. hope he gets a rhythm going.

 

As long as the numbers are not biased. Clutch did not put score number,steal, block, board numbers and game lose/win number, percentage is not a very good since these two might take different shots during the comparison. If all numbers showing Lin is below than Bev, no one will argue. If some number of Lin are better, why Clutch did not put them in?

 

to be fair, even if he did, i bet most critics would still argue small sample pool, etc.

no stat is perfect and there are always flaws. just have to draw a line at what point you think is enough.

i would liked to have seen W/S's per 48 or something though. good article by clutch regardless. i did not find it too biased in tone.

 

Clutch has no reason for bias. And he isn't going to put himself on a limb and take a position unless he has a lot to back it up. That's his history. If you listen to his podcast he doesn't make strong statements one way or the other. For him to make it as definitive of a statement as he has is pretty remarkable and speaks to the convincing evidence at hand.

I have always been a big Lin supporter. I really hoped that when Bev was out that Lin could establish himself as the starter. I hoped Lin could be successful. I root for him as the first Asian American baller in the NBA and because he's a great guy. It's such an awesome story and was happy he was reacquired. But from the numbers and what I have been seeing on the court - I have to say he hasn't played up to expectations. It's not the numbers only, it's the style and decision making at times. It's definitely not racial bias. That part may have existed many times on his journey - but it is not playing a factor in his success here with the Rockets.

I think you have to consider how much money Les and Morey spent to get him, and McHale really does seem to like Lin and wants him to succeed. The team does too - you can tell whenever Lin makes a big basket how happy they are for him. But it's not happening here for him as a starter. Hopefully he can be a great guy off the bench. I am hoping for that big-time and really do wish him success as a Rocket or anywhere. Guy works so hard and is such a genuine person - I think all that can see that want him to succeed. And that definitely is the case with the Rockets organization from everything I can tell.

 

Look at all of these exaggerations.

Here's your puffery.

"He's gotten better on his gambles"

What is gambles? Give me some basketball technicalities to justify the gambles you're talking about.

"He hits rotations pretty well"

Specify what rotations you're talking about. Describe a play not just plain words.

"Offensively though, Bev is definitely worse than Lin"

Definitely worse? In what sense.

"Yet from everywhere else on the floor, it isn't even close"

Everywhere else from the floor? Watcha talking about. Lin makes a lot at rim. He ain't a shooter. Clarify son.

"Lin's toolset on the offensive end is superior to Bev's...by a lot

What is toolset? Skillset? How superior is it? Break it down and not just by exaggerting it saying "by a lot"

"Hard to say as Lin's whole season stats last yr are so strongly skewed downward due to his terrible, terrible start"

Terrible, terrible. Really? Excuse maybe. To you and LOF's it's terrible, to the folks that know bball, it's more technical than that.

I guess you really don't know what puffery is. It's beyond wordy but exaggerations.

You want to go through every stat you brought up and break down some plays. Let's go. I really want to know how smart you really are. Fire them off. One by one and we'll go through it. Don't throw out a bunch of exaggerations and flood your words to try to prove anything. We can see through the smoke screen.

 

I couldn't agree more with the article: the numbers support the general impression from watching the games. Both suggest the same conclusion. The issue now: is Lin too expensive as the sixth man? That one is for you contract/numbers people, but as for me, I would like to keep him. Without him, the second unit does not function nearly as well. If Asik wasn't such a woosie, it might be really something.

 

I've been thinking about that. :grin:

But I actually confuse myself with that thought because I thought he should be happy since LOF are bringing in a lot of clicks to the Clutchfans.net.

 

Great article.

I always like Lin to be our Jason Terry coming off the bench to give the team offensive boost.