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Lin tried to call a play, Harden ignored it

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by bob718, Nov 8, 2013.

  1. munco

    munco Member

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    Starting to hate this team. We have all the talent in the world but I'm starting to question if our "stars" have bought in. It doesn't seem like it.
     
  2. cn0gd

    cn0gd Member

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    did they still have time out? why they didnt call a time out when they get the rebound, instead assistant coach JB jumped out and yelled at them?
    i think they didnt have any left.
     
  3. cn0gd

    cn0gd Member

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    when you see the whole world are haters, maybe it's on you.:rolleyes:
     
  4. Hrock

    Hrock Rookie

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    [​IMG]

    The ironic thing is, if we played more team ball, Harden would have a lot more less contested shots for the game-winner.
     
  5. Just Ballin

    Just Ballin Member

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    What I caught...

    Howard remembered the play too late, therefore attempting to set the screen too late and failing 100% at it. This was the major point that screwed the play up. Asik did a much better job and remembered to set the screen up when he was part of the play.

    Harden could've at least got to his spot faster, closer to the corner and at least be ready for a catch and shoot just in case or even just to throw people off, instead he stood there in a position where he would not be ready if the play changed midway.

    Howard and Harden are brilliant at what they do, but seriously need to work outside their talents too.
     
  6. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    [​IMG]

    Same play. Doesn't matter if he runs to the spot or crawls to it, he's in the spot. If you think he wasn't ready to catch the ball if it came to him then I don't know what else to say.

    Funny thing is people are saying he's not into the game at this point...and then on the following play gets a steal...

    It's whatever, I'm going to let people live in their fantasy world where Harden hates his teammates and is actively trying to hold back Lin...a world where he gives no effort and yet is top 3 in scoring all while apparently not giving a single damn. Pretty impressive, maybe if he cared a little he'd be better than Lebron.
     
  7. Akkuron

    Akkuron Member

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    The way I see it Harden and Bev are the only 2 that didn't screw this play up, since they're just supposed to stand around anyway. If Harden and Bev had switched sides, all it would end up doing is allow Nash to crowd Lin's drive as well.

    The main problem I see is Howard, who's just standing at the free-throw line doing nothing (except deny Lin's passing lane to Parsons). He's not rolling to the basket, which might have drawn Kaman's attention, allowing Lin to finish the drive and he's not screening Gasol, which would allow Parsons to shoot. He's just standing in a position where he's not a threat whatsoever, allowing the Lakers defense to compensate for being broken down by simply guarding only 4 players.

    After that's all said and done and Lin has passed back to Parsons (which he telegraphed, by the way) then maybe Harden being on the left would have come into play, but I sincerely doubt it. Parsons couldn't drive past Gasol and he couldn't get the ball through Nash to Beverley anyway, plus the play is completely broken down at that point and they're just improvising. Parsons' couldn't get the shot off and that's that.
     
  8. basketballholic

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    Good job.

    Now go back to the beginning. Bev brings the ball over half-court. Harden is standing there waiting to get the ball and run a play. Lin gets the play call from the bench, runs down hollering the play call, and Bev throws him the rock.

    Here's what could have happened. Lin could have called the play, handed the ball to Harden, run down into the left corner and pushed Beverley to the right corner. Now, you've got the horns setup with Harden running it from the top. I could make a good argument that that setup is a better setup involving those 3 perimeter players than any other setup when running that play. (Not to mention that in that action with Bev moving from the left corner to the right corner would be another opportunity for Harden to catch him back door.)

    In my humble opinion, this play simply demonstrates why the dynamic between Lin and Harden isn't working. Posters and writers keep making the statement that Harden is ball-dominant and therefore is not good when playing off the ball. That's bologna. He deferred to RB and played off the ball many times at OKC and was very effective. If the defender played him tight off the ball, he'd go back door and get the layup. The problem now is Harden didn't want to play off the ball on that possession and he doesn't want to play off the ball on this team on any possession that he is out there unless he is physically exhausted from multiple fast breaks, etc., and simply wants to take a possession off. He simply doesn't want to defer to Lin like he did to Westbrook. And the next problem is Lin thinks if he hears McHale call a play that he (Lin) has to be the guy running it at the top. Hence, Lin calls the play and instead of letting Harden run the play and running down to the corner himself, he thinks he has to execute it. Harden simply meanders down to the opposite corner and ...............................essentially takes the possession off. Then Harden jumps Lin about not letting him (Harden) run the play.

    Another observation:
    At the start of the play when Lin receives the ball back and Harden starts meandering to the corner, at about the :09 second mark Harden could have pushed down slightly then juked Meeks left and went to the hole for an easy alley oop. The beauty of horns is both bigs are up high leaving plenty of space underneath. You can see in this instance that they are rotated to the left at that point. Harden could have pushed Meeks down into that pile and then went right around Parsons for the easy alley-oop. Yeah, that's breaking off the play. But that's how you play basketball. Lazy basketball by Harden, and poor recognition by Lin, and stubbornness by Harden and Lin all exhibited in one play. DYSFUNCTIONAL
     
    #168 basketballholic, Nov 9, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2013
  9. cn0gd

    cn0gd Member

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  10. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    I'm not the one making up things based on body language and ignoring the simple fact that they ran the same play IN THE SAME GAME no less just to make up my own narrative.
     
  11. JMG524

    JMG524 Member

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    ^^This is spot on analysis. Check out the video of the French National team running this play starting at 0:12.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/sY59It4FUwY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Now examine the same play as it was run by the rockets.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-c9dClaPKgk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


    After comparing these two videos, you can clearly see the culprit on this play is neither Lin or Harden, but PBev. After Parsons drove down the lane and stopped short, the ball was supposed to be handed off to Bev, who should've curled through a Parsons screen, which would've freed him up for the option to either attack the basket or take the jump shot. You can clearly see he hesitated too long to do so and didn't follow through with it which forced Parsons to throw it back out to Lin. By that time the play was broken and the shot clock nearly expired which doomed this possession. Now granted I believe had Harden listened to his teammates and switched sides with Bev, this play would've resulted in an open shot for him so he is also at fault here.
     
  12. Spiegel

    Spiegel Member

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    You are an ex YOF/LOF convert who views Harden as the person who is Lin from some fantasy created stardom. That's bull****e.
     
  13. cn0gd

    cn0gd Member

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    good imagination but the fact is J.B Bickerstaff jump out and yelling loudly with arms point at Lin, you can see it at the beginning of the video, what I can see is he want Lin to get the ball and run it. it was too much noise that Bev cant hear it clearly so he kept dribbling with confused body language, until Lin run to him and get the ball.
     
  14. cn0gd

    cn0gd Member

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    then both Lin and Parsons waving their arms talk to harden bcoz they are just dancing the hokey pokey trying to amuse him.:rolleyes: and then Lin is not satisfied shake his head bcoz harden is lack of humor he didnt laugh.:rolleyes:
     
  15. keldraco

    keldraco Member

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    there must be a purpose Lin wanted harden and bev to swtich position.
     
  16. TJ VS TR

    TJ VS TR Member

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    Yes, he should wear a yellow batch.
     
  17. HMMMHMM

    HMMMHMM Contributing Member

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    Wrong again. There was not supposed to be any flex action going on. The Rockets signal for flex action out of Horns is elbow:

    [​IMG]

    The signal for pick&roll out of Horns is what Parsons was signaling (pinkie and index finger up):

    [​IMG]
     
    #177 HMMMHMM, Nov 9, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2013
  18. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    So what did Lin and Parsons tell Harden exactly? I mean you seem to know what went on there exactly.

    All I know is they have run the play before (in the same game...) maybe they were more animated because of the urgency of the situation and the time it took to get the play started? I really don't know. Nor will I make a serious effort into reading their body language and assuming that Harden just ignored a play that they ran before in the game.
     
  19. Play07

    Play07 Member

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    harden would be soooo much better for this team if he could play without the ball, not his fault mchale play has him just standing in corner.. Look at how doc had reddick moving around catch and shoot imagine that he can catch shoot or just drive to the hole off a screen
     
  20. TheBigFive

    TheBigFive Member

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    But then how would he get the assists he needs to be considered an MVP candidate?
     

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